B Deck Windows

[Dieter Klimow]

Titanic's window configuration on B deck has been modified after launch.

On Launch Day, Wednesday, 1911-05-31, the openings were spaced evenly, as in the lower half of the image (Source: Triumph and Tragedy).

On Saturday, 1912-02-03, it was still the same (The Birth of the Titanic, page 129).

In the second week of March, the window openings had been changed, as in the upper half of the image (The Birth of the Titanic, page 129).

Changing these openings must have been dirty steel work, and it was probably done when there were no cabins behind them yet.

Does anyone have information when this happened? If the information in 'The Birth of the Titanic' is correct, it took not more than five weeks to change the windows, and not more than eight weeks (minus the time for the steel work) to install the outer B deck cabins, which seems quite fast to me.

 

[Scott R. Andrews]

Dieter,

Clicking on the following link will bring you to a post card image taken of the Titanic while fitting out at precisely the time large portions of the original B Deck promenade windows were removed and screen bulwarks in which these windows were mounted were being torn out. Though the exact time period is not indicated, as you can see from the incomplete state of things, and also by the fact that the ship is still in her launch colors rather than in the coat of gray primer that covered her for much of her fitting-out, this work began not long after her fitting-out had commenced:
http://www.maritimequest.com/liners/titanic/photos/fitting_out/18_titanic.jpg

The portions which will eventually enclose the starboard private promenade deck and the Cafe Parisien remain untouched.

In the two pictures you provided, the top one (shown on pg. 121, rather than pg. 129 of "Birth of the Titanic"), which shows the new stateroom windows, was from about January, 1912. Note that even though the windows and surrounding screen appear complete, the shipfitters have yet to remove the scaffolding and supporting brackets affixed to the ship's plating; this scaffolding had been installed to allow the shipfitters to perform the exterior part of this work. Also, if you look very carefully, you will see that in the picture on pg. 129 of "Birth of the Titanic," the narrower, unevenly spaced windows of the new B Deck staterooms are there and, in fact, a line of scaffolding affixed just beneath the upper edge of the A Deck bulwarks is just barely visible, already in place in preparation for adding the screens to enclose the forward end of the A Deck promenades.

Regarding the dates, the March 2nd date refers to the picture below on pg. 128; the picture on pg. 129 was taken several days later, after Titanic had be towed in to the turning basin and turned 180 degrees, with her starboard side now facing the fitting-out wharf.

Regards,
Scott Andrews

 

[Dieter Klimow]

Scott,
you really provided a missing link there

.

I am sorry I messed up the page numbers.
The image which puzzled me because it did not fit into the timeline is on page 126, not 129. The caption says 'In the final stages of completion, Titanic was drydocked on Saturday 3 February 1912 to allow the fitting of her three propellers and other necessary work. (L1118/4)'.
At a closer look, the painted funnels do not seem right, which is not surprising when one considers that the funnels were painted later, while the B deck windows in the image are obviously still where they were at launch.

It makes sense that the window modifications would have been completed by January, which left some time for the interior work.

Thank you for clearing this up! I wish there were such answers to all the other questions I still have...

 

[Scott R. Andrews]

Dieter,

This time, the reason the picture on pg. 126 is puzzling you and does not appear to fit into the time line is because the caption is incorrect. In spite of what it says, this is not the Titanic -- it is instead the Olympic! For one thing, as genuine pictures of the Titanic will show, by the time the funnels were painted in the company colors, the exterior work on B Deck had been completed. In this picture, not only are all of the original B Deck promenade windows and screen still in place, the long 2nd Class B Deck sheltered promenade deck is still there -- this Olympic without a doubt. By this point in time, the work of extending the structure of Titanic's la carte Restaurant and its adjoining Galley to the port side of the ship had long been completed, with only the completion of the interior joinery still in progress. Look again at the picture on pg. 121; in the distance, the foreshortened 2nd Class promenade and the three groups of three narrow windows of the Restaurant are already there, yet much of the ship is still in the shipyard primer, with only the beginnings of the final paintwork begun.

Regards,
Scott Andrews

PS - There are other more subtle clues that the picture on pg. 126 is the Olympic, such as the arrangement of the sidelights along C Deck, another of the not-so-minor differences between the two sisters.

 

[Steven Hall]

Dieter,
dating Titanic images if often difficult.
The funnels are always the key in later images. Also, the painting of the hull on the port side.
Another clue, there's a fence running alongside the dry-dock. It can be seen in most Titanic images that see Titanic in the dock. During Olympic's construction, this 7' lapped fence was not there.
In one image, you can see two boys perring over the top while Olympic (Titanic at Fitting-out Wharf) is being removed from the dock.
Most that know the image in question assume Olympic is entering the dock, but in fact she's coming out. When Olympic did go in - her backside was low in the water from the stern flooding, the patch over the stern hull breach not being as water-tight as hoped.
Scott has provided you with excellent information. In fact, I'd only just seen the thread myself.

 

[Dieter Klimow]

Scott and Steve,

thank you for the rich information. (But your answers gave me even more interesting unknowns to investigate!)

Both of you know too much, you should go and write a book...

Greetings,
Dieter Klimow

 

[Steven Hall]

Actually I'm in errr, on the Olympic pic going into (leaving) the dry-dock. I was thinking of another picture of Olympic. Of course, the pic I mentioned above was when she lost a prop. But she was still leaving, not entering.
I've had that much Titanic lately that the old mind is a little blurred.

Steve

 

[Dieter Klimow]

Steve,

could you please give me the number of an image with the fence around the dry dock, I think H1706 and H1637 show the scene you refer to, only I can see no fence there.

I have extended the "Queen's Island Works" plan from 'Shipbuilder' a bit, so that more relevant area is included (as it appears today).

Queen's Island Works

At which location did they replace Olympic's propeller?

The 'Thompson Wharf Road' leads now directly into the river. Maybe there was once something which is not there anymore ('B' and 'C')?

 

[Steven Hall]

There's the fence. Look at H-1706.
When writing the first book with Bruce Beveridge, my wife would see these two chaps on the fence (laugh) and say, "that's you and Bruce watching the two ships".
How true, if I'd been around than - that's where I'd have been.
I laughed today when I seen it, imagining Scott Andrews and Daniel Klistorner there also saying 'come-on', get down and give us a look you two.
Wouldn't it had been a grand sight to behold.

best,
Steve Hall

 

[Steven Hall]

This is clearer.

 

[Dieter Klimow]

Thank you Steve, now I see them.

The photo reproductions in my books are too dark or too blurred, the boys are undiscernible there and you can see the fence only as such when you know it is there.
I do not have any real photographs yet, but I have immediately ordered a few now, with more to come.

Since my previous post, I was able to identify the Thompson Graving Dock as 'D', and Titanic behind the fence would be at 'C'.
The quay between 'B' and 'C' is not there any more. What was it used for, and what happened to it?
Here is a new map with the quay added: Queen's Island Works (2)
(The maps are not meant to be accurate, neither for 1911 nor for today; they are just there to show what I am talking about.)


Aren't we doing the same as these boys?
Time and oblivion are the fence separating us from what once was present, while we are peering over it, trying to get a look.

 

[Scott R. Andrews]

Dieter,

"C" was the fitting-out quay. This is where the post-launch construction of the Olympic and Titanic was continued and completed. The machinery and boilers being lifted aboard, the fitting of the funnels and masts, the installation of much of the interior joinery -- all of it was carried out at this location, with the heavy-lift operations being performed by the floating crane.

Regards,
Scott Andrews