Caught your post after my latest went up Erik, and rest assured I'll do my part to follow your guidelines.
Ballard's plan
- Thread starter Marc Davis
- Start date
mr paddon the reason that people call dr ballard as the person who found the titanic is because he found it when people such as millionare named jack grimm failed to find it dr ballard wanted to find the titanic for a long time he spent many years getting the money and the technology to make his wish to come true as for the issue of salvaging the ship it was sad when rms titanic,inc did it but i am glad they did it because they showed us just a little of what was on the ship and to a lot of people that is as close to the titanic as they will get and as to dr ballard's new project i hope he can make it happen someday so that people dont have to pay so much just to go where it sank and i wish him all the best and i will also say that if you will read dr ballard's book on how he discovered the titanic you will see how he waited for years just to make his dream come true jennifer mueller
Actually Jennifer, the 1985 expedition was a joint endeavor in which IFREMER was just as much a part of the team as Ballard and contributed equally to the finding of the ship.
mr paddon you are right that it was a two team effort to try to find the ship and my point is that dr ballard and his crew found the ship how he found it when others couldnt i will vever know but i am glad he found the ship so that the world could know and eventhough it lead to salvaging the wreckage at least it was great for dr ballard found it in peace and quiet and was able to have a short ceremony to honor the not only the people who died that april night but also the ones who survived without any other ship around and i think its ironic that the night they found the ship it was a moonless night just like the night titanic sank and i hope that his new project will ensure the survival of the tiotanic before its too late jennifer mueller
Eric:
Since I choose not to comment on Dr. Ballard anymore as I have about the same opinion of him as you along with many others.
He did wonders for the "Titanic" community by giving us the first pictures of the ship in 1985. And I will leave it at that, as for all the politics since 1985 in my opinion it is sour grapes.
Should me bring up the British Navy Project of 1977 and who might have really found the Titanic.
Let me find my notes again.
Since I choose not to comment on Dr. Ballard anymore as I have about the same opinion of him as you along with many others.
He did wonders for the "Titanic" community by giving us the first pictures of the ship in 1985. And I will leave it at that, as for all the politics since 1985 in my opinion it is sour grapes.
Should me bring up the British Navy Project of 1977 and who might have really found the Titanic.
Let me find my notes again.
A fascinating tale, Steve! And while I'm sure lots of people will just tut and cry 'Conspiracy theory', I'm also sure that there's a very strong likelihood that at least one of the world's navies found the ship, one way or another, prior to the official discovery.
It sounds like Ballard is doing what he's best at again-blowing his own trumpet, to bump up his possibly sagging public profile. You can't deny that he's probably done wonders for children's education with his Jason Project, but every one of his 'Discovery'-type books since 'Titanic' has been more and more of a let down, to the point that the Lusitania one is a joke; he didn't really 'discover' enough there to fill out a book that size at all. (And that's without mentioning the VERY large amount ghost writing that goes on and lack of credit to others where due, something else the man excels at)
So, 'the man that found the Titanic' is talking about it again.
Again.
It sounds like Ballard is doing what he's best at again-blowing his own trumpet, to bump up his possibly sagging public profile. You can't deny that he's probably done wonders for children's education with his Jason Project, but every one of his 'Discovery'-type books since 'Titanic' has been more and more of a let down, to the point that the Lusitania one is a joke; he didn't really 'discover' enough there to fill out a book that size at all. (And that's without mentioning the VERY large amount ghost writing that goes on and lack of credit to others where due, something else the man excels at)
So, 'the man that found the Titanic' is talking about it again.
Again.
Great post Steve..Ive knew about the secret British expedition for a few years, but noone was talking about it..
Im glad the story is out..
rwgards
tarn Stephanos
Im glad the story is out..
rwgards
tarn Stephanos
Tarn:
As for the British Navy in 1977, you might have heard about it from many of the same source's I have since many, are our mutual friends.
I have been discussing this with various people since I first heard about it in 1994.
When I originally purchased the CD-Rom "Titanic: an Interactive Journey" produced by Europress and RMS Titanic, Inc. in 1996, there was a brief mention of this 1977 British find on the CD-ROM.
So I had a very long talk one day with George Tulloch about this and the information that was presented in my prior post and what I had available in my notes at the time were found to be basically the same as what had been heard by others.
I seems back then no one wanted to talk about this subject in public. Now that some time has passed since the end of the "Cold War" researchers might be able to get some more further information on the issue of who really found the Titanic. As it is now a known fact that Dr. Ballard went looking for the Thearsher and Scorpion at the same time as the 1985 "Titanic Expedition".
To go into further detail on this subject the recent NOVA documentary "The Battle for the Titanic" briefly mentions this 1977 British Navy incident.
So based on the facts I have heard I have to give it some logical thought.
In my opinion it is probably a true story.
However, we have to wait around until 2027 to find out won't we :>)
As for the British Navy in 1977, you might have heard about it from many of the same source's I have since many, are our mutual friends.
I have been discussing this with various people since I first heard about it in 1994.
When I originally purchased the CD-Rom "Titanic: an Interactive Journey" produced by Europress and RMS Titanic, Inc. in 1996, there was a brief mention of this 1977 British find on the CD-ROM.
So I had a very long talk one day with George Tulloch about this and the information that was presented in my prior post and what I had available in my notes at the time were found to be basically the same as what had been heard by others.
I seems back then no one wanted to talk about this subject in public. Now that some time has passed since the end of the "Cold War" researchers might be able to get some more further information on the issue of who really found the Titanic. As it is now a known fact that Dr. Ballard went looking for the Thearsher and Scorpion at the same time as the 1985 "Titanic Expedition".
To go into further detail on this subject the recent NOVA documentary "The Battle for the Titanic" briefly mentions this 1977 British Navy incident.
So based on the facts I have heard I have to give it some logical thought.
In my opinion it is probably a true story.
However, we have to wait around until 2027 to find out won't we :>)
It is an interesting story Steve, but one that will probably have to wait until the day when more information can be made available (I'll only be 58 then in 2027).
Has anyone noticed that Ballard is never interested in doing follow-up study of the other wrecks he's discovered? Frankly, I'd rather see another more up-close study of the Yorktown wreck and a new search for the destroyer U.S.S. Hamman and the Japanese carriers sunk at the Battle of Midway that Ballard didn't locate than to see him devote new time to Titanic, but I guess there's no headline value left to be milked out of the Midway ships (plus the book and film have been written) from Ballard's standpoint.
Has anyone noticed that Ballard is never interested in doing follow-up study of the other wrecks he's discovered? Frankly, I'd rather see another more up-close study of the Yorktown wreck and a new search for the destroyer U.S.S. Hamman and the Japanese carriers sunk at the Battle of Midway that Ballard didn't locate than to see him devote new time to Titanic, but I guess there's no headline value left to be milked out of the Midway ships (plus the book and film have been written) from Ballard's standpoint.
Out of curiosity, what is the position of the US government about people searching for their sunken warships? I mean, it's one thing when Ballard's working under Navy sponsorship, but when he (or anyone else) works under the auspices of a private company, does the Navy tend to be as cooperative?
James Smith
James Smith
James, click on Department of the Navy Policy Regarding Custody and Management of Sunken Naval Vessels and Aircraft Wreck Sites. This brief article spells it out.
"Some people might be wowed by the thought of seeing Titanic live on their computer"
Per norm, my two cents"
I did......and I was! When they did the live broadcast, I was watching on my TV & my computer..I was wowed and I loved it! The best part was capturing the pix on my PC at the same moment the world was seeing them...being able to take any shot "I" wanted....I captured about 200. In a way...It sort of felt like I was in control of the camera on the ROV...lol. The images were crystal clear as were all the pix I captured. It was really very special to me.
Now I know what he proposes isn't the same thing, but I think it could work. What I seem to be getting from a few these posts is that Bob is only in it for the money and the glory. IMHO I don't think that's totally true...but how would I...or any of us really..... know? Lot's of us are wishy washy on a lot of different subjects...we have formed opinions...and changed them...then changed them again. I use to wish she could be raised...or a replica built...I don't feel that way anymore.
People "buying" Bob's books are putting money in his pocket. Is it fair to buy the book and then bitch about how he wrote it or what he put into it? Yes...I guess it is...in fact...it's our right. I do know several people who are not Bob fans, but they are right there ready to pay to read what he has to say next....lol.
Steph
Per norm, my two cents"
I did......and I was! When they did the live broadcast, I was watching on my TV & my computer..I was wowed and I loved it! The best part was capturing the pix on my PC at the same moment the world was seeing them...being able to take any shot "I" wanted....I captured about 200. In a way...It sort of felt like I was in control of the camera on the ROV...lol. The images were crystal clear as were all the pix I captured. It was really very special to me.
Now I know what he proposes isn't the same thing, but I think it could work. What I seem to be getting from a few these posts is that Bob is only in it for the money and the glory. IMHO I don't think that's totally true...but how would I...or any of us really..... know? Lot's of us are wishy washy on a lot of different subjects...we have formed opinions...and changed them...then changed them again. I use to wish she could be raised...or a replica built...I don't feel that way anymore.
People "buying" Bob's books are putting money in his pocket. Is it fair to buy the book and then bitch about how he wrote it or what he put into it? Yes...I guess it is...in fact...it's our right. I do know several people who are not Bob fans, but they are right there ready to pay to read what he has to say next....lol.
Steph
Stephanie wrote: "What I seem to be getting from a few these posts is that Bob is only in it for the money and the glory. IMHO I don't think that's totally true...but how would I...or any of us really..... know?"
Some people on the board have had personal experiences with Ballard. So it's likely that a few of the opinions expressed here are being drawn from first hand knowledge. Regardless, people not even remotely associated with Ballard and his expeditions can come to the conclusion, whether correctly or not, that he is less than altruistic.
You're right that we don't know that this man's main motive is to line his pockets but, in my opinion, his want of thoroughness and habit of allying himself with experts only to disregard their information and advice, shows that his main motive is NOT to educate and inform.
Stephanie: "I do know several people who are not Bob fans, but they are right there ready to pay to read what he has to say next....lol."
Some people probably don't mind paying to read what Ballard has to say. But I do. He's taken enough people's money as it is.
As to people flip-flopping in their opinions about various issues, maybe Stephanie is right there, too. Our views certainly should be amended when new reliable data is produced. But on the question of salvage, I, for one, have not changed my stance. I am fundamentally opposed. So my attitude toward Ballard is not based on a disagreement on the salvage question. I do feel though, that as so many "artifacts" have been retrieved already that these items should be preserved in a permanent and respectable home - not carted round the world for movie-addled tourists to peep and poke at.
The collection of retrieved items ought to have either a museum of their own or be presented to a reputable repository where they can be treated with care and displayed tastefully.
I am not at all supportive of any plan that would involve Ballard, in the guise of Titanic's ultimate protector, sailing off with National Geographic in tow and another contingent of token experts, to return these salvaged items to the seabed. Absolutely NOT!
There has been enough of a circus surrounding the salvaged material. It needs to end quietly and peacefully.
Randy
Some people on the board have had personal experiences with Ballard. So it's likely that a few of the opinions expressed here are being drawn from first hand knowledge. Regardless, people not even remotely associated with Ballard and his expeditions can come to the conclusion, whether correctly or not, that he is less than altruistic.
You're right that we don't know that this man's main motive is to line his pockets but, in my opinion, his want of thoroughness and habit of allying himself with experts only to disregard their information and advice, shows that his main motive is NOT to educate and inform.
Stephanie: "I do know several people who are not Bob fans, but they are right there ready to pay to read what he has to say next....lol."
Some people probably don't mind paying to read what Ballard has to say. But I do. He's taken enough people's money as it is.
As to people flip-flopping in their opinions about various issues, maybe Stephanie is right there, too. Our views certainly should be amended when new reliable data is produced. But on the question of salvage, I, for one, have not changed my stance. I am fundamentally opposed. So my attitude toward Ballard is not based on a disagreement on the salvage question. I do feel though, that as so many "artifacts" have been retrieved already that these items should be preserved in a permanent and respectable home - not carted round the world for movie-addled tourists to peep and poke at.
The collection of retrieved items ought to have either a museum of their own or be presented to a reputable repository where they can be treated with care and displayed tastefully.
I am not at all supportive of any plan that would involve Ballard, in the guise of Titanic's ultimate protector, sailing off with National Geographic in tow and another contingent of token experts, to return these salvaged items to the seabed. Absolutely NOT!
There has been enough of a circus surrounding the salvaged material. It needs to end quietly and peacefully.
Randy
I'm not completely sure about money motivating Ballard, but I think the evidence is a lot more clear with regards to what a massive ego he has and how he is willing to exploit this stature as "man who found the Titanic" to maximum benefit.
To me though, it isn't the fact that I don't consider his books all that stellar, or the fact that he only wants to do searches that will attract headlines that annoys me so much about the man, it's his determination to twist the factual record to suit his agenda, and his belief that he can get away with it because of his supposedly sacrosanct status as the man who found the Titanic. The "crows nest telephone" canard that remains uncorrected in all current editions of "Discovery Of The Titanic" for me, remains the ultimate proof of this (and as I've mentioned before, with regard to the article that started this thread, he's still doing similar things to this day).
To me though, it isn't the fact that I don't consider his books all that stellar, or the fact that he only wants to do searches that will attract headlines that annoys me so much about the man, it's his determination to twist the factual record to suit his agenda, and his belief that he can get away with it because of his supposedly sacrosanct status as the man who found the Titanic. The "crows nest telephone" canard that remains uncorrected in all current editions of "Discovery Of The Titanic" for me, remains the ultimate proof of this (and as I've mentioned before, with regard to the article that started this thread, he's still doing similar things to this day).
Hi Randy...
When I mentioned the "flip-flopping" I didn't really mean just about Titanic...just sort of life in general...then I mentioned my own flip-flopping relating to Titanic. LoL 20 years ago, I though drinking & driving was okay....
I don't believe that they should put the items back either. A bit much bravado on his part me thinks!
Steph
"movie-addled tourist" ;o)
LoL I only say that because I haven't been lucky enough to see an exhibit of any kind, yet I don't care for the stuff being carted here, there & everywhere either! see? I'm wishy washy!
)
When I mentioned the "flip-flopping" I didn't really mean just about Titanic...just sort of life in general...then I mentioned my own flip-flopping relating to Titanic. LoL 20 years ago, I though drinking & driving was okay....
I don't believe that they should put the items back either. A bit much bravado on his part me thinks!
Steph
"movie-addled tourist" ;o)
LoL I only say that because I haven't been lucky enough to see an exhibit of any kind, yet I don't care for the stuff being carted here, there & everywhere either! see? I'm wishy washy!
)Stephanie,
No worries. We all flip-flop here and there. I've been known to flip myself and I have definitely flopped!
My best to you,
Randy
No worries. We all flip-flop here and there. I've been known to flip myself and I have definitely flopped!
My best to you,
Randy
Ive flipped flopped many times..
I used to be totally opposed to the recovery of Titanic artifacts- then I wound up working at 5 Titanic exhibits!
Its human nature to change ones mind on issues...
Tarn Stephanos
I used to be totally opposed to the recovery of Titanic artifacts- then I wound up working at 5 Titanic exhibits!
Its human nature to change ones mind on issues...
Tarn Stephanos
J
Joshua McCracken
Guest
Here in my personal problem with all of this. First, everybody knows that the Titanic is disintegrating pretty rapidly, and I personally believe that spending the time and the money to set up an underwater camera system on the wreck and then maintaining it would be a complete waste. No matter what Dr. Ballard says, 12,000 feet is a pretty long way down, and the amount of money needed just to place the mounts on the wreck is astronomical. If a company wants to throw their money away in an endeavor like this it's their business I guess, but personally I wouldn't go near a project like this. In my opinion I think that the Britannic is a much better candidate for this kind of idea. The wreck is in better condition, it lies in waters that can actually be protected, and it isn't so far down that it can't be easily accessed for any repairs that might need to be done in the event of a malfunction with the camera equipment.
Hi Steve,
Just a question about your comment:
"To go into further detail on this subject the recent NOVA documentary "The Battle for the Titanic" briefly mentions this 1977 British Navy incident."
Is this the documentary made by John Gau Productions and broadcast in the UK a few years back? Its possible that there are two different versions, a UK and a non-UK version, as the one we saw here in Britain only discussed Alan Road and his reporting of the Titanic wreck before 1st September 1985 when she was officially found.
Could someone please confirm this?
Best wishes
Paul
--
http://www.paullee.com
Just a question about your comment:
"To go into further detail on this subject the recent NOVA documentary "The Battle for the Titanic" briefly mentions this 1977 British Navy incident."
Is this the documentary made by John Gau Productions and broadcast in the UK a few years back? Its possible that there are two different versions, a UK and a non-UK version, as the one we saw here in Britain only discussed Alan Road and his reporting of the Titanic wreck before 1st September 1985 when she was officially found.
Could someone please confirm this?
Best wishes
Paul
--
http://www.paullee.com
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