Barrett's "wall of water"


JTDillon

Member
Apr 3, 2020
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Hello everyone, I hope youre all doing well!!


So I have spent far too much time thinking about how Titanic sank, not in the general sense of "water went above the bulkheads", far more specific then that... I try to figure out exactly where the water went, when it went there and how fast it wouldve been flowing.

Ive read the testimonies of the survivors and tonight ill be talking about the gentleman who was in BR6 at the time of the collision then made his way back into BR5, Mr. Barrett. He said he saw water coming into the coal bunker so he closed the door... Later on he says a "wall of water" came out of nowhere causing him, and only him, to abandon the boiler room.
WHERE DID THIS WALL OF WATER COME FROM?

Well, thats obvious youre going to say, "It was the water filling up in the coal bunker & when it got full the door gave way from the water pressure emptying its contents into the boiler room".
Was it though?.....

Heres what I think and why I think it... I dont think there was water in the coal bunker, I dont think he saw a wall of water. I think he was working in BR5 with his crew mates and after some time told them he was going to get something or slipped away when they werent looking and made his way to lifeboats ASAP because he was scared of getting stuck in the bowels of a sinking ship without lifeboats - I cannot fault him for this and that IS NOT the point of this post; It seems like everyone else takes this guys word on what happened that night but I dont, I want to reconcile where the disconnect is exactly - why do so many of you believe his testimony and I dont?
I think his story of BR6 is a cover, an excuse as to why he left BR6 so he didnt have to admit he fled out of fear and be labeled a coward.


Why could I have such a stupid thought? Its obvious where the water came from! Im so glad you asked...

First of all he instantly fled BR6, there was another man on duty with him in BR6 who didnt flee and instead he stayed and did his duty. Interesting decision to flee since there was no reason to instantly panic and flee, there are escape ladders straight to E deck and HE KNEW THIS. The other man stayed to try and pull the fires, I would assume this is what they were supposed to do when ice cold water came into the boiler room but Barrett didnt even try, he saw water and panicked. "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior"

Barrett says he gets into BR5 and notices the bunker filling with water. 10-15 minutes passes then Barrett goes to BR6, sees 8ft o water and returns to BR5. Order comes in from the Engine Room to send all stokers up to the boat deck but Barrett was ordered to remain behind. I think this will be the key to why he decides to abandon his post... I wouldnt want to be the poor sucker told to remain in the sinking ship either. By now he clearly knows the damage is serious and im sure he in concerned.

So the coal bunker has a small door on it, he shuts this door and we think the water fills up the bunker, the problem I have with this is that theres no way that coal bunker door was water proof...there are photos of Olympics bunker doors and theyre clearly not water tight or even that thick of steel... MAYBE im wrong, but I have yet to read any mention of them being water tight or any reason to believe they were.
As the water level inside the bunker rises above the door there would be water leaking out... Im sure the incoming water would be greater than that leaking out of the door so the water level inside the bunker would slowly rise, as it did the pressure would rise and the leaking water would become more and more obvious.... I wont go over all the details of his testimony, but he spends about an hr and a half in and around BR 5 with 3 engineers, at one point 15 additional firemen come down to help pull fires for about 25 mins... All these guys and nobody notices surging water over in the corner? Barrett states over and over there was no water in BR5 until the wall of water.

Well, lets assume I am wrong and the bunker door was designed to hold back water, then the bunker would have indeed filled up with water. Would the bunker even hold the volume of water necessary to pour out into a huge room and appear as a wave? Its coming out of a relatively small door mind you, this water would pour out into the floor plates directly in front of it..the water would pass the floor plates and go 2 more feet before the bottom of the ship, this is when it would be able to begin spreading out.
I want you to really think about how the water would leave the bunker door and how it would behave, then think about the relatively small amount of water there wouldve been. How could this have been enough to appear as a wall in a wide open room?
No way. Im not buying it.
Hes making it sound like the collision in BR6 again.
fefe
I cant find exact dimensions of the bunker, but we have the floor plans and just some rudimentary math shows the bunker would have enough space to hold enough water to fill maybe 9-10% of boiler room 5. I just went by very simple math here, but looking at the floor plans it becomes clear how little water it would hold. Thats like saying if your bedroom closet was full of water and you opened it, there would be a wall of water moving across your bedroom.
It wouldve come out rapidly for a minute, then slow down...taking into account the 2 feet below the plates I think thats plenty of room for the initial surge from the bunker door to spread out.


Barrett goes on to say he could feel the bow of the ship going down and it got noticeably worse over the time he spent in BR5.. im sure this was constantly on his mind and led to him finally deciding to leave.

He is asked where it came from, how fast it came and both times he said he didnt knew, he never stopped to look.



If I am missing something here I am hoping someone can enlighten me or tell me if my logic is flawed... Basically- the amount of water held in the starboard bunker wouldnt be nearly enough to cause a wall in a room as large as BR5. Barrett was at the aft end of BR5, I just dont see that small volume of water coming out of a 2ft wide doorway and being able to form a wall at least 4 feet tall ( 2 feet under floorplates and at least 2 feet above floor plates to be considered a "wall") in all directions like that. That would require a larger volume of water being delivered at a much faster and constant rate to keep up with the amount of space it needed to fill up (especially expanding in all directions since as the water spread out the intensity of the surge would decrese rapidly). the issue is that once the bunker initially emptied its contents the rush would be over, the only water that would still be coming in would be via the hole in the bunker but that wasnt that severe. I understand as the external waterline rises the pressure coming into the bunker would get higher and I also took this into consideration but even still I dont think it would be enough.

IDK how else I can explain it. I know im essentially repeating myself but im trying to be clear so someone can help me understand..

IF what Barrett said is true and there was indeed so much water pouring into the boiler room and so fast to expand and fill up such a large space with a wall then it mustve been the WTD between 6 & 5 giving way. Heck, maybe all the conspiracies are true and someone up in the bridge opened the WTD in order to guarentee the ship would sink?? Hahaha...
I dont see where else this water wouldve come from. It wasnt coming from over the bulkhead, and if it did it wouldnt be a sudden rush at that point in the sinking had slowed down.

So why would Barrett make up such a lie? To not seem like a coward... he wanted to get out of the boiler room and up to the boat deck. He was in the BR for an hour and a half, the entire time we know he feels the angle of the ship changing so he is aware the ship is not leveling out and continuing to sink, im sure he is able to realize the ship is doomed and he was getting impatient...all the rest were ordered to the boat deck im sure he wanted to join them.
This is why he says it was a wall, if it was a medium influx of water then that wouldnt justify ditching your crew...he needed a reason to be out of there FAST.
According to him, 2 other people were in the room and he left them, made NO effort to help.
IF the room would fill up as fast as he said, there would be enough time for Barret and the other guy to help the man with the broken leg over to the stairway.
The fact Barrett didnt even try is sad..


What does everyone else think?
 
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JTDillon

Member
Apr 3, 2020
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So Ive been doing some hardcore research and I managed to find someone else who seems to be suspicious as well.... This is a quote from the author:

"The space enclosed by the empty forward starboard coal bunker in boiler room 5 was, to the height of the watertight door, is about 2300 cubic feet. If this bunker was catastrophically flooded and then opened, it would empty into contents and the water would, after the initial torrent, level out across the whole compartment, which has a surface area of 5200 square feet. If all the water was released, the total depth above the coal bunker would be about 1/3 foot; since the floor plates were two feet above the level of the water tanks at the bottom of the ship, this water from the bunkers would fill this cavity; the boiler room would only seemingly be temporarily awash. This amount of water would have a mass of some 47 tonnes. The pumps in the boiler room couple cope with 250 tonnes per hour, plus a possible additional 125-150 tonnes per hour."
 

William Oakes

Member
Mar 6, 2020
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88
Hello everyone, I hope youre all doing well!!


So I have spent far too much time thinking about how Titanic sank, not in the general sense of "water went above the bulkheads", far more specific then that... I try to figure out exactly where the water went, when it went there and how fast it wouldve been flowing.

Ive read the testimonies of the survivors and tonight ill be talking about the gentleman who was in BR6 at the time of the collision then made his way back into BR5, Mr. Barrett. He said he saw water coming into the coal bunker so he closed the door... Later on he says a "wall of water" came out of nowhere causing him, and only him, to abandon the boiler room.
WHERE DID THIS WALL OF WATER COME FROM?

Well, thats obvious youre going to say, "It was the water filling up in the coal bunker & when it got full the door gave way from the water pressure emptying its contents into the boiler room".
Was it though?.....

Heres what I think and why I think it... I dont think there was water in the coal bunker, I dont think he saw a wall of water. I think he was working in BR5 with his crew mates and after some time told them he was going to get something or slipped away when they werent looking and made his way to lifeboats ASAP because he was scared of getting stuck in the bowels of a sinking ship without lifeboats - I cannot fault him for this and that IS NOT the point of this post; It seems like everyone else takes this guys word on what happened that night but I dont, I want to reconcile where the disconnect is exactly - why do so many of you believe his testimony and I dont?
I think his story of BR6 is a cover, an excuse as to why he left BR6 so he didnt have to admit he fled out of fear and be labeled a coward.


Why could I have such a stupid thought? Its obvious where the water came from! Im so glad you asked...

First of all he instantly fled BR6, there was another man on duty with him in BR6 who didnt flee and instead he stayed and did his duty. Interesting decision to flee since there was no reason to instantly panic and flee, there are escape ladders straight to E deck and HE KNEW THIS. The other man stayed to try and pull the fires, I would assume this is what they were supposed to do when ice cold water came into the boiler room but Barrett didnt even try, he saw water and panicked. "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior"

Barrett says he gets into BR5 and notices the bunker filling with water. 10-15 minutes passes then Barrett goes to BR6, sees 8ft o water and returns to BR5. Order comes in from the Engine Room to send all stokers up to the boat deck but Barrett was ordered to remain behind. I think this will be the key to why he decides to abandon his post... I wouldnt want to be the poor sucker told to remain in the sinking ship either. By now he clearly knows the damage is serious and im sure he in concerned.

So the coal bunker has a small door on it, he shuts this door and we think the water fills up the bunker, the problem I have with this is that theres no way that coal bunker door was water proof...there are photos of Olympics bunker doors and theyre clearly not water tight or even that thick of steel... MAYBE im wrong, but I have yet to read any mention of them being water tight or any reason to believe they were.
As the water level inside the bunker rises above the door there would be water leaking out... Im sure the incoming water would be greater than that leaking out of the door so the water level inside the bunker would slowly rise, as it did the pressure would rise and the leaking water would become more and more obvious.... I wont go over all the details of his testimony, but he spends about an hr and a half in and around BR 5 with 3 engineers, at one point 15 additional firemen come down to help pull fires for about 25 mins... All these guys and nobody notices surging water over in the corner? Barrett states over and over there was no water in BR5 until the wall of water.

Well, lets assume I am wrong and the bunker door was designed to hold back water, then the bunker would have indeed filled up with water. Would the bunker even hold the volume of water necessary to pour out into a huge room and appear as a wave? Its coming out of a relatively small door mind you, this water would pour out into the floor plates directly in front of it..the water would pass the floor plates and go 2 more feet before the bottom of the ship, this is when it would be able to begin spreading out.
I want you to really think about how the water would leave the bunker door and how it would behave, then think about the relatively small amount of water there wouldve been. How could this have been enough to appear as a wall in a wide open room?
No way. Im not buying it.
Hes making it sound like the collision in BR6 again.
fefe
I cant find exact dimensions of the bunker, but we have the floor plans and just some rudimentary math shows the bunker would have enough space to hold enough water to fill maybe 9-10% of boiler room 5. I just went by very simple math here, but looking at the floor plans it becomes clear how little water it would hold. Thats like saying if your bedroom closet was full of water and you opened it, there would be a wall of water moving across your bedroom.
It wouldve come out rapidly for a minute, then slow down...taking into account the 2 feet below the plates I think thats plenty of room for the initial surge from the bunker door to spread out.


Barrett goes on to say he could feel the bow of the ship going down and it got noticeably worse over the time he spent in BR5.. im sure this was constantly on his mind and led to him finally deciding to leave.

He is asked where it came from, how fast it came and both times he said he didnt knew, he never stopped to look.



If I am missing something here I am hoping someone can enlighten me or tell me if my logic is flawed... Basically- the amount of water held in the starboard bunker wouldnt be nearly enough to cause a wall in a room as large as BR5. Barrett was at the aft end of BR5, I just dont see that small volume of water coming out of a 2ft wide doorway and being able to form a wall at least 4 feet tall ( 2 feet under floorplates and at least 2 feet above floor plates to be considered a "wall") in all directions like that. That would require a larger volume of water being delivered at a much faster and constant rate to keep up with the amount of space it needed to fill up (especially expanding in all directions since as the water spread out the intensity of the surge would decrese rapidly). the issue is that once the bunker initially emptied its contents the rush would be over, the only water that would still be coming in would be via the hole in the bunker but that wasnt that severe. I understand as the external waterline rises the pressure coming into the bunker would get higher and I also took this into consideration but even still I dont think it would be enough.

IDK how else I can explain it. I know im essentially repeating myself but im trying to be clear so someone can help me understand..

IF what Barrett said is true and there was indeed so much water pouring into the boiler room and so fast to expand and fill up such a large space with a wall then it mustve been the WTD between 6 & 5 giving way. Heck, maybe all the conspiracies are true and someone up in the bridge opened the WTD in order to guarentee the ship would sink?? Hahaha...
I dont see where else this water wouldve come from. It wasnt coming from over the bulkhead, and if it did it wouldnt be a sudden rush at that point in the sinking had slowed down.

So why would Barrett make up such a lie? To not seem like a coward... he wanted to get out of the boiler room and up to the boat deck. He was in the BR for an hour and a half, the entire time we know he feels the angle of the ship changing so he is aware the ship is not leveling out and continuing to sink, im sure he is able to realize the ship is doomed and he was getting impatient...all the rest were ordered to the boat deck im sure he wanted to join them.
This is why he says it was a wall, if it was a medium influx of water then that wouldnt justify ditching your crew...he needed a reason to be out of there FAST.
According to him, 2 other people were in the room and he left them, made NO effort to help.
IF the room would fill up as fast as he said, there would be enough time for Barret and the other guy to help the man with the broken leg over to the stairway.
The fact Barrett didnt even try is sad..


What does everyone else think?
Interesting Theory.
It makes sense.
Well presented and well thought out.
It all adds up.
I'm inclined to agree with you.
 

Jim Currie

Member
Apr 16, 2008
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NewtonMearns, Glasgow, Scotland.
Barratt and Beauchamp were both in BR 6.

Beauchamp said he was in section 10 at the moment of impact. That means he was at the aft end of BR6, He said he as given the order to draw fires and when that was done to get out of there.
Barratt was in charge of BR 6 and he too was in section 10 talking to the 2nd Engineer. There was also another junior engineer named Hesketh with them.
When the STOP firing signal came the order was obeyed and the closing if the dampers almost finished when the impact came.
6 seconds after impact, the water came through he ship's side and the WT doors began to descend, 25 seconds after that, they would have been closed. Just before they were closed, Barratt first said he and the 2nd dived under them. That left the junior engineer in charge of the stokehold. But later he said the junior engineer escaped with him.
The next order that came was draw fires - now that is when things get complicated. Because if Barratt and the 2 engineers escaped to BR5, who was it that gave Beauchmp the order to draw fires? And who told him and those remaining on BR 6 that they had done enough and could leave by the escape ladder?
 

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