Jim Currie

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Apr 16, 2008
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He gambled with the lives of others who had no say in what he was going to do. Once icebergs were cited, and they were, the risk becomes greater, especially since the vessel he was heading for was sinking. Rostron would not have known exactly what precautions were taken beforehand on Titanic before she ran into the berg, only that she struck a berg was reported sinking. Luck was on his side, nothing else. The world would have a far different view of him if Carpathia suffered the same fate as Titanic did.
Exactly - Oh! and the lucky "poser" also got away with firing distress signal when he was not in distress and Captain Moore had something to say about that:
"Mr. MOORE.
I do not think it possible, sir, because if the Carpathia was farther away it is not likely you would see her rockets. But you see, this ship says she is sending rockets up. So it is possible that other ships may have seen them. I do not know. I thought of sending rockets up, but I thought it far better to let it alone, because if other ships - they thought they saw them - might be coming to me, and I had not seen anything of the Titanic and did not know exactly where she was;


Moore kept all the notes passed up to him by his W/O. This one seems to have been missed by Rostron...
"Carpathia asks if he [Titanic] wants any special boat to wait on him. Titanic says, "We want all we can get."
I do not think anybody realized at the time that it was so bad, sir."


These illustrate the actions of a man acting before thinking...no a practical seaman as he liked to portray himself as.
 

Mike Spooner

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I wish some of you would read the evidence properly. How difficult is it to understand the following?
17494. Do you remember when the "Titanic" was leaving Belfast - you signed on the "Titanic" as look-out man, we know - were a pair of glasses given you?
A: - Yes.
Glasses were given to Hogg when the ship left Belfast
17495. For the crow's-nest? A: - Yes.
They were given to him for use in the Crow's Nest
17496. Who gave them to you, do you remember?
A: Mr. Blair, the acting Second Officer then.

The acting Second Officer Blair, gave them to Hogg. Note the use of the word "acting". This means that Blair knew he was only temporary and that when they got to Southampton he would be discharged, and the word "acting" would be written his Discharge Book. Consequently, he would not have any animosity toward his employers at that time. It was then, and for very many years thereafter, standard practice.
17498. Did you notice how they were marked?
- "Theatre, Marine and field." "Second Officer, S.S. 'Titanic.'"
The Binoculars (glasses) were dual-purpose - for outdoors and for use in a theatre, therefore were not specifically for use as an aid to visual detection at sea. They were specifically in the care of the Ship's Second Officer and not specifically for use in the Crow's Nest
17500. Was "Theatre, Marine, and field" the same?
- No, you worked them as you wanted to use them.

Unless the binoculars in question were prismatic, the field of vision was limited. Prismatic binoculars were a fairly recent innovation in 1912.
17501. When you left the ship at Southampton, what did you do with those glasses?
- Mr. Blair was in the crow's-nest and gave me his glasses, and told me to lock them up in his cabin and to return him the keys.

Blair must have been in the Crow's nest on the passage up to Southampton. Note the use of the possessive pronoun "his". These were not specifically for the Crow's Nest
17502. Who returned the keys?
- I gave them to a man named Weller, as I was busy on the forecastle head.

If Hogg was on the forecastle head at that time, he was off duty and working at the forward berthing station.
17503. As far as you were concerned, the glasses, you were told, were to be locked up in the cabin of the second Officer?
- I locked them up.

If this statement is true, then Hogg gave the glasses to Weller but forgot to give him the keys. Then after his forecastle head duty, went to the 2nd Officer's cabin and locked the binocular box - thereafter leaving the keys on the 2/Os desk or in the lock.
17504. And they were locked up. When the ship left Queenstown were there any glasses in the crow's-nest? A: - There were none when we left Southampton.
17506. When you left Southampton? A: - I did not exactly ask for them, but my mates asked for them at that time.

Hogg was told that a Lookout asked "someone" for binoculars on leaving Southampton but that man did not get them
17507. Did you ask for them at all after you left Queenstown? A: - After I left Queenstown.
17508. You personally asked for them? A: - I personally asked. 17509. - Mr. Lightoller.
17510. Will you tell us what you said to him, quite shortly, about it? A: - I said, "Where is our look-out glasses, Sir?" He made some reply, I did not exactly catch it. "Get them later," or something like that.
17511. At any rate, you did not get any? A: - I did not get any.

The evidence points to Lightoller having ben asked twice for the binoculars. leaving Southampton and Queenstown.
If Lightoller used the expression "later" with reference to getting the binoculars, that suggests that the binoculars were still on board Titanic- still locked in the box in his cabin and the that, he, Lightoller was either in his bunk when asked, or too busy to stop doing what he was doing when asked and subsequently, the question of binoculars slipped his mind.
By the same token, if the binoculars were of paramount importance to the Lookouts - why did not any one of them persist in getting them from Lightoller?


The foregoing illustrates that there were (as Thomas very clearly shows) two sets of keys and that the ones taken ashore by Blair were the ones to his cabin. How many of you have checked out of an hotel and forgotten to give back the room key?
Jim I thank you for taking the time out what was said in the inquiry. I am now convince that there was binocular in the second officer cabin. Therefore he was responsible for handing out the binocular. There is no way a lookout man can help himself from his cabin. As for the two keys what happen to the other key? Did Lightoller lose the key or just mislaid it?
If the lookout men where always hand out a pair of binocular, what skin of his noise is it to him! You ask why they didn't they purist. Lightoller is a senior officer and not to be question by a much junior crew man. But still maintain he had other options like to inform the captain for the spare set on the bridge.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Luck was on his side, nothing else. The world would have a far different view of him if Carpathia suffered the same fate as Titanic did.

That much is true, and in todays environment, Captain Rostron would very likely have had some sort of action taken against his certificate.


Having established that, I'm also mindful of two points:
1912 was a much less risk averse time and,
Nothing succeeds like success. Rostron became the Hero of the Day.


On the other hand, had he wrecked his ship, I suspect but can't prove, that he would have been pilloried to such an extant that it would make the savaging Captain Lord received look like a lovefest!
 
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James B

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That much is true, and in todays environment, Captain Rostron would very likely have had some sort of action taken against his certificate.
In todays standards and enviroment Titanic wouldnt hit the ice berg in the first place, Captain Smith would have seen whats coming before he departed from port and even if they did hit they would have sent adistress via MF/HF and VHF, AIS and via sat, the bridge of every ship in that part of the world (and further with relays) would have been ringing like crazy and even if the officers of the Carlifornian would have ignored the distress Captain Lord would have got a telephone call from the MRCC to get his ship moving to the location of distress at once, ignoring that order would have definitely put him in a world of shit or as you wrote make what actually happened to him look like alove fest.

As far as Captains Rostron actions, Iam sure he wasnt an Idiot, he would have known where were the Ice bergs, his maneuvers could have been less dramatic and risky so there wouldnt be any doubt about his even if there were enough life boats and there was no need to rush.

There was no need of him to fire rockets too, he would have found thier location on his radar (SART).

There are no more heros and sleepers, no drama or tragedy now days, the big brother is always watching, the news of the sinkage would have been on the back page of the news papers no one would know or care about who were Captain Rostron, Smith or Lord or about the Titanic for that matter.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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In todays standards and enviroment Titanic wouldnt hit the ice berg in the first place,

Don't be so sure. Collisions with icebergs still happen, although in fairness, it's because somebody did something stupid.

And don't forget, Captain Smith and his happy band were very well aware of the presence of icebergs, when they could expect to be in the region of the reported ice, and even gave the lookouts special instructions to be on the lookout for growlers and bergy bits.

What went so badly wrong was that they overestimated their ability to see and avoid ice.

As to what they would have done and what would have happened in the here and now, I think it's pretty much understood that it would have played out differently for reasons we've both gone over. What we need to remember before we go too far down that rabbit hole on "what would have been done now" is that this is 1912, not 2012 we're talking about.

Beware anachronism. What counts is what they did back then.
 
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Nov 14, 2005
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They didn't!
Well then E.T has steered me wrong over the years.
 
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Nov 14, 2005
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Well then E.T has steered me wrong over the years.
Ok. I went and read thru a bunch of the threads on this and others. The one thing I agree on is that nobody seems to agree about it. I should have said delaying the turn at the corner to take them further south. But there is not much agreement on that either. But this has been beaten to death over the years. So I will concede that all the articles that I've read over the years saying Titanic altered course further south could be wrong. Maybe, kind of, sort of....:confused:.
 
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