Boat No 4

[Nathan Heddle]

I don't know if it is just me, but I find it interesting that boat 4 seemed to be held for the society families. The Thateyers, Carters, Wideners, Astors etc, all waited on the promenade deck near and in the gym, waiting to get into boat 4, which was eventually lowered down to the windows on the promenade deck so it was easier for them to get in.

I find it very strange that these families didn't try to escape at the first opportunity and not hang around for one of the last boats.

It also seems strange that this particualar boat was held for them. Did others try to enter No 4 on the boat deck and were refused. I wonder?

nathan

 

[Randy Bryan Bigham]

Nathan,

I don't believe that Boat 4 was kept exclusively for the wealthy families you mentioned. I am not sure but I believe there were 2nd or 3rd class people in that boat as well.

However I do agree with you about its being odd that all those people didn't try to get off in other boats. Perhaps their all knowing one another, as I assume they did to some extent - "Society" being a much more closed circle than today - had something to do with it. Also they were probably being assured all the while that things were not so bad. So they may have thought they might as well stay put.

Plus I know that one of the ladies in this group, Mrs. Thayer or Mrs. Ryerson I believe,got quite upset about their being shifted about and so perhaps the others felt the same way and were determined to stay where they were.

If I'm not mistaken Boat 4, like others on the 1st class deck, did leave without a full load which is unfortunate. It did pick up people in the water later but I suspect this was only because, as it left not long before the ship sank, it was still within easy reach of the swimmers.

Randy

 

[Steve Arnold]

According to the list of passengers given elsewhere on this site, there were 17 first class passengers, 7 first class servants, 7 second class passengers, and 12 crew members on lifeboat number 4.

 

[Peter Engberg-Klarström]

Dear everybody, there were mainly first class passengers in boat No 4, at least when it left the sinking Titanic. There were at least two second class passengers (perhaps seven, if the Richards/Hockings were in the boat, which is not quite certain), but I have as yet failed to find any third class passengers who entered the boat. The Nicola Yarrads are placed by some researchers in this boat, but they clearly describe the boat scratching against the ship's side, indicating boat C, not 4.
Boat No 4 probably left the Titanic with about 30 people in it (or 35 including the Richards/Hockings), then picked up eight crewmembers from sea, two of whom died, after that got perhaps eight or nine from boat 14, and then another eight or ten from boat B, for a grand total of perhaps 55 or 60 when the Carpathia rescued them.

Best regards,

Peter

 

[Nathan Heddle]

Hey Randy,

Yeah, I don't really think the boat was kept for them either, but at the same time, Lightholler says that he tried to load it, and couldn't so went and did some other loading and came back to finish them.

I just wondered if that meant that the No 4 was off limits on the boat deck, and if others knew that. I mean, everybody was waiting one deck below, some in the gym, so they weren't that obvious and if another officer had loaded that boat not kowing, then American society would have gone down with the ship.

It seemed a very dangerous game to be playing, especially with children and a pregnant woman. So I thought that perhaps they knew it was coming as it was sort of waiting for them.

Have I made any sense in what I've just said?

nathan

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Nathan, FWIW, some people...even some of the Titanic's officers...didn't quite know what was coming or appriciate just how much trouble they were really in. Lightoller's testimony makes some interesting reading in this regard. There were people who for a varity of reasons plain flat out refused to get into the boats beleiving the warmth of the ship to be far safer then an open and very cold boat on the North Atlantic at night.

Think about it a second and try to understand it from their point of veiw. Ship=safe, well lit, comfortable and beleived by many to be unsinkable, which faith some held to even when they could see evidence to the conterary right in front of them. Now ask some pampered 1st class lady being offered a place in a boat which was being lowered into the dark of the night from a perilous hight(70 feet!) into the icy, inky black sea. Not hard to see why some would say;"You're not getting ME into that thing!"

The breakdown in communcations was far from helpful as the problems of loading boat 4 demonstrate. Poor training and only a token boat drill inport were also a factor. It gauranteed that when the crunch came, they wouldn't know what they were doing...and tragically, they didn't.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Nathan Heddle]

Michael,

Yes all that is very true, and in some circumstances it cost people their lives. However, many of the people that ended up in Boat No 4 knew what was going to happen. Col. Astor certainly did. He was under no illusions as to what was going to happen, having spoken to Thomas Andrews himself, I believe.

If he knew, then I'm sure he shared this information, with the male Thayers, Wideners, Carters, weather they believed him or not is another story.

If I knew that the ship was going down, I wouldn't be taking any chances with my pregnant wife.

I do however agree that poor training and a lack of drills did prove a desisive factor in so many deaths.

nathan

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I don't know if Col. Astor shared the information or not, but as you said, even if he did, how meny people actually would have beleived him? And did the people in boat 4 or some of the others really understand the ships predicament? Some genuinely expected to reboard the ship in the morning. The capacity for people ignor reality never ceases to amaze me.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Ben Holme]

Hi Everyone,
A plausible reason for the lack of 3rd class passengers in #4 could be that the boat was lowered parallel with A deck early on i.e before the steerage made it to the boat deck. When they got there, the boat was out of sight and they could see no reason to go down to A-Deck. In any case, after a while one can imagine that quite a queue would have formed with the 1st class passengers who had waited the longest (Astors, Wideners, Thayers, ryersons etc) at the front.
hope this helps.
Warm Regards
Ben

 

[Lori Wilson]

I would be interested to know if any of you could give me any information on how I might obtain information on the whereabouts of any relatives of the survivors of boat #4. I am doing a research project and it would be a great help to me to be able to talk to anyone who may be related to the survivors or have any information on how to find them. Thank you. Lori

 

[MEREDITH B LAMB]

I am the great grandchild of a survior of life boat #4. Frank W. Prentice is my grandfather. if you have questions i'd love to try and help with your report. thank you,
Meredith Lamb

 

[Robert Daniel]

I am related to Walter Perkis the Quartermaster who took charge of Lifeboat 4. Like Meridith if you would like to send me your questions I'd be happy to help.

 

[Jan C. Nielsen]

Thanks, Robert. But I at first I thought you were related to the guy who owned Gamon de Pycombe, the champion bulldog aboard Titanic (First Class Passenger Robert Daniel). Do you have any information on attempts at suicide, depression, recurrent problems such as inability to speak about the disaster, or other types of so-called post-traumatic stress syndomes among survivors, including your relative. We've been finding quite a few instances of this among survivors. Washington Dodge committed suicide; Fredick Fleet did too; Henry Frauenthal; Jack Thayer; purportedly Madeline Astor; among many others; some people suffered from hearing voices; lots of survivors refused to talk about the disaster at all.

Also, Boat No. 4 was one of the few to return to the scene and pull in some swimmers. What can you tell us about that? What about the famous Countess of Rothes?

 

[Robert Daniel]

Yes, I don't suppose there are too many people with a namesake AND a relative on board Titanic.

Much of my information about Walter has come from this site. I have no evidence to support or counter whether Walter suffered post-traumatic stress. From what I've found out he was a quiet man anyway. I've met other family members who knew him and they had no first hand accounts from Walter. So it would appear that after Titanic he did not speak about it.

 

[Manuel Reiprich]

I wonder why Lightoller lowered Number 4 with only 30 people, half an hour before end.
Did he believe the boat may
breach when filled with more? Number 14 was lowered under his command and it hold about 45, 15 more than number 4. So that is no reason. Didn't he found more women? 10 minutes later he found 20 women to "fill" the boat D and to lower it with 27 vacant seats.
Why did he sent quartermaster Perkis to astern to take more passengers from an open door although there was no open door at all ?
And: WHY DIDNT HE FINALLY FILLED UP THE SEATS WITH MEN WHEN THERE WERE NO WOMEN?
In my opinion, Lightollers behaviour was illiberal ("the order is ONLY women, no men") and irresponsible that night ( except his role on boat B ).
Time to think over his remembrance in official titanic history. He was no hero, absolutely not.