Bringing the Britannic to life

[Matt Endacott]

I had an idea on raising the Britannic, lol - i know you must ALL be driven crazy by now on the subject but hear me out:
Would it be possible to split the wreck in 6 pieces and raise each separately then ship them to a dry dock where they can be assembled and repaired, creating a floatable hull, then repairing the decks from iron (some new) from the wreck site? Also, the lifeboat davits from the wreck could be repaired and fixed back onto the ship aswell as the railings & portholes.
Then, new fittings created from the plans of the RMS Britannic could be installed and the Britannic could finally carry paying guests (most likely as a hotel.) She could be painted the same as the Olympic & Titanic and made a hotel like the Queen Mary in Long Beach. Thousands would pay to sleep aboard a boat that once sat on the sea floor after being sunk in the First World War, especially one that is the Titanic's sister! The ship would be over 60% original, constructed from the parts found around the wreck and thsoe still attached.
Any comments, is this possible??
Thanks

 

[Chris Mazzella]

Matt,
That would cost billions to do and the condition of the hull is probably very weak after 87 years of being in salt water so it probably wont work.

 

[Jim Kalafus]

Check out this link for an interesting example of a badly damaged passenger liner being raised from deep water after several decades

SS Islander's page!

 

[Jim Kalafus]

And this one:

Northwest Diver.com : Deep in the Past by Sid Macken

which is almost the same as the first link, but which has the photo showing exactly how the Islander was raised.

The end result spelled out in the story- the wreck of the Islander stank as 33 years of accumulated marine life rotted away, raising complaints amongst the downwind neighbors. After the predictable financial catastrophe, her unwanted remains continued to moulder for two decades until 1952 when she was finally scrapped.

All of the factors which made raising the Islander an unwise choice would probably be squared if one were to try it with Britannic.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Bear in mind that the Islander is a reletively small vessel in shallow waters. While in reletively shallow waters compared to Titanic, the Britannic is still a very large ship. Bringing her up would take far more technical muscle then anyone can currently put together, and the hull is still in pretty bad shape. Not as bad as Titanic, but fragile nonetheless.

One could cut it up, but once it was brought up, you can forget re-assembling her. After nearly a century underwater, the steel would start to decay fairly rapidly. There's just no way the hull could be made safe, much less seaworthy.

There's also the fact that the Britannic is a war grave. You can't even dive on her without permission, much less physically molest the wreck unless you want to run into all kinds of legal woes.

 

[Jim Kalafus]

Yes, all of factors which made raising the Islander an unwise choice would probably be squared if one were to try it with the Britannic.

 

[Matt Endacott]

One question:
If the Britannic is a war grave & Michael stated "There's also the fact that the Britannic is a war grave. You can't even dive on her without permission", yet in Darwin, Australia - the wrecks of say 5 boats sunk in the Darwin Air Raid during WW2 have been raised, scrapped for metal and dumped off the coast. One in particular was the American destroyer USS Peary, sunk with the loss of over 90men when 4 bombs were dropped on it. The men onboard remained firing the guns even while water lapped their feet and went down with the ship & for those who jumped overboard became victims of sharks as Darwin, in the Northern Territory is so dangerous, swimming off the coast is forbidden. The wreck of the Peary was later partly raised and scrapped by the Japanese after the war (the same people that sunk her!) and among the items raised, some included watches, buckles and glasses. These items were simply dropped back into the sea, with no respect, while parts of the hull were sent off to Japan. Personally, i find this far worse than raising the Britannic and keeping the entire wreck together. Now, the Peary is scattered all across Darwin Harbour. Can anyone tell me if there is a law against that? For more people did die there than on the Britannic!
Thanks

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Matt, there is no "if" about it. The Britannic is a war grave and there are some pretty strict laws in effect regarding molesting same. Doing so can get you in heap big trouble with the law. The Greeks in particular are notably unamused with this sort of thing, and I doubt that Simon Mills (who owns the wreck) would be any more kindly disposed towards it.

Australia may well have some very different concerns, but I think in this case it helps to know that wrecks in or close to a harbour or in shipping lanes constitute a hazard to navigation and had to be removed. This is the reason why, for example, the remains of the USS Maine were removed from the harbour in Havana and scuttled in deep waters.

 

[Matt Endacott]

Michael,
I understand the issue that the Peary is in a major shipping lane - Darwin Harbour, but it is an American ship. Who would make the laws concerning that issue? Australia or America? I'm sure if the wreck of the HMAS Sydney (which was sunk in WW2 somewhere between Western Australia and Africa with all onboard and to this day still misssing) was found in African waters, the Australian Government would have some say into what should happen to the remains! For it was a ship sunk with over 400 Australian men. Does this apply to the Peary, 90 American men killed in Australian waters? So who really has full control of the wreck, America or Australia? This also goes for the Britannic. As they were British people killed in Greece, shouldn't Britain have full say into what happens to these 30people's remains?
Thanks

 

[Nicolas Roughol]

Matt,

Indeed Britain has something to say as to what happens to the wreck of Britannic, and it was the British government that made the Britannic wreck site an official war grave. The Greeks also have something to say as Britannic lies in their waters. Therefore, if someone wants to make a dive (or do anything else) on Britannic, he has to get permission to do so from three parties: the Greeks, the British, and Simon Mills.

Take a look at this article: http://www.hospitalshipbritannic.com/mills_salvage.htm to get the opinion of Simon Mills on raising the Britannic.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Australia or America?<<

Both. And as this was in a time of on-going conflict in waterways that were then and are now in constant use, any hazards to navigation would have to be removed. I don't think they gave it much further thought at the time. Why should they?

>>I'm sure if the wreck of the HMAS Sydney (which was sunk in WW2 somewhere between Western Australia and Africa with all onboard and to this day still misssing) was found in African waters, the Australian Government would have some say into what should happen to the remains!<<

I'm sure they would. I don't know if this hypothetical Africa nation would play ball, but that's another story.

>>As they were British people killed in Greece, shouldn't Britain have full say into what happens to these 30people's remains?<<

Indeed they do and they have. Two words: Hands off! And the Greeks agree. Anyone who doesn't like it is welcome to take it up with them. In the meantime, I'd suggest you read that link that Nicolas was so kind as to provide as it spells out the reality.

 

[Matt Endacott]

no need to be harsh Michael, i was simply giving an idea

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Matt, I wasn't being harsh, mearly direct and to the point. If I was being harsh, nobody would have any cause for doubt. When you spend 20 years of your life as a deckplate sailor, you can't help but learn some very creative ways to be nasty. I didn't use any of them.

I appriciate your sentiments in that you seem anxious and enthusiastic about looking for ways to preserve some of our heritage. I don't have any problems with that. I would point out however that any such endevour needs to take into account the way the world really is actually works.

While the Britannic is certainly in far better shape then the Titanic, raising the ship is neither practical or worthwhile. She's been in her grave for nearly a century and the elements have taken their toll. While it is technically possible to bring her up in bite sized chunks, the condition of the metal after so much time in salt water would make any chance of re-assembly impossible, and the resultant patchwork that could be cobbled together would be neither seaworthy or even safe to walk around in.

My own opinion, FWIW is that it would be far better to try and make the site an interactive underwater museum as has been proposed on several occasions. Not only is this technically feasible, it could be done without the astronomical costs involved in raising a wreck you couldn't really do anything with except run to the scrapyard. It would also preserve the wreck, and make her accessable to anyone with a home computer.

Perhaps you can work out a way to make this happen as the other contenders seem to have come up short or lost interest. Consider it a worthy challange.

 

[Joshua McCracken]

After reading Simon Mills' opinion on the subject, I have to continue to side with those who would rather see the Britannic where she currently is. Just as he said, the operation would be too expensive, and much too difficult. I'm sure we all remember the circus that was the attempt to raise the Big Piece from the Titanic's debris field in 1996. Even though the Britannic lies in much shallower waters, that doesn't change the fact that after 87 years at the bottom of the sea the ship's hull is probably extremely weak, much too weak for it to survive a salvage operation, even if the ship were cut into pieces for it to be accomplished (an idea which strikes me as just plain ghoulish). I think that the wreck should be much more extensively explored and photographed. Lying in such shallow waters and with such a small amount of real corrosion in the hull, I would like to see more diving operations undertaken so that a complete photographic record of the Britannic can be put together, much along the lines of the excellent "Ghosts of the Abyss" book. I doubt you'll find very many supporters on this board for raising the Britannic.

 

[Joshua McCracken]

Oh yes, one more thing--I don't know about the rest of you, but I would think that if the Britannic WERE to be raised the smell of decaying sea life would be overpowering, and in an area as large as the Britannic, with so many nooks and crannys inside, it would take a few million dollars just to clear out all of the 'leftovers' from it's stay on the ocean floor. Besides, I think the idea of sleeping in a ship that has spent the last 87+ years on the bottom would creep me out before it would fascinate me. It would probably be cheaper to just build a replica of the Titanic and dock it if people are so eager to spend a night on an Olympic class liner.