Californian the only one
- Thread starter Nienke B
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Michael H. Standart
Member
Nienke, there has been quite a bit of debate on this one, some of it quite passionate (as in emotional, hot, and sometimes downright nasty). We KNOW the Californian was nearby, although be it five, ten, or twenty miles will likely always be hashed over. We also know the Carpathia was roughly 48 miles away...not 58...but still not close enough to get there befor the ship sank.
Information presented in the U.S. Senate investigation transcript places the Mount Temple at 50 miles, the Persian,(No distance given)the Birma at 70 miles,the Frankfurt at 140 miles and the Baltic (No distance given on the chart).
The Titanic was hardly alone, but as rapidly as evants unfolded, she might as well have been on the Moon. (Shrug)
Hope this helps some.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Information presented in the U.S. Senate investigation transcript places the Mount Temple at 50 miles, the Persian,(No distance given)the Birma at 70 miles,the Frankfurt at 140 miles and the Baltic (No distance given on the chart).
The Titanic was hardly alone, but as rapidly as evants unfolded, she might as well have been on the Moon. (Shrug)
Hope this helps some.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Michael H. Standart
Member
No problem, mate. If you can, get the transcripts of the inquiries. If it's too pricey, you can always go to The Titanic Inquiry Project which has the transcripts available on-line. I seem to recall the ET has a link to same. It's well worth bookmarking.
Cordially,
Michael h. Standart
Cordially,
Michael h. Standart
Bill Wormstedt
Member
The Titanic Inquiry Project also has downloadable versions of the entire documents available, so you can get your own copies. I find it very useful to have them on my computer.
Michael H. Standart
Member
Good for you. I take it you're downloading them at home? That's a monster of a site so it's got to be taking quite awhile to do.
Cordially.
Michael H. Standart
Cordially.
Michael H. Standart
Bill Wormstedt
Member
The downloads at the Inquiry site are by day, and zipped, so that picking up the pieces shouldn't take too long.
Getting all the pieces, ah, that's another story!
Getting all the pieces, ah, that's another story!
Michael H. Standart
Member
If push came to shove, I would have printed them out one page at a time. With over 2000 pages combined, that would have been costly just for all the ink cartridges I would have had to replace. I probably got the better deal going to Amazon and The Congressional Rersearch Service.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Dave Gittins
Member
Actually, I find the text files from the site to be very useful. Open them in any reasonable word processor. Wordpad is fine. Then use the Edit function to search each day's evidence. If you keep all the files in one folder, you can use Windows Explorer to search the whole lot. You can even open several day's evidence in different windows when you want to compare evidence from different witnesses. It beats using the very expensive PRO CD ROM. I assume you could do the same thing with a Mac or with Linux.
Three loud cheers for Rob Ottmers and company!
Three loud cheers for Rob Ottmers and company!
Michael H. Standart
Member
Amen to that Dave. I just wish the power net here in my home state could be trusted. The reason I forked over the quid for the printed copies is because onelittle cloudburst seems to leave us in the dark.
Merry Christmas mate.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Merry Christmas mate.
Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
Norman Olsen
Member
Hi All, If you look at the testimony of Capt Moore of the Mt Temple, you will see here he states his ship had to get out of the way of a schooner. He saw the schooner's green light and ordered the helm to starboard. He also states seeing a light aboard the schooner that soon went out, making him think this schooner was manned with a crew, not derelict. Senator Smith also stated he had information about a derelict schooner in the area, but doesn't state where that information came from. As in read the statements given by Capt Moore, it makes me think this schooner, the one the Mt Temple encountered, wasn't but five or six miles off from the Titanic. I haven't gone over any figures as to visibility of the schooner lights from that distance, but it seems this needs to be considered when we think about just whose lights did the Titanic's crew and passengers see that night. Norm Olsen
Dave Gittins
Member
No need to figure. Schooners used oil light that were lucky to meet the rules for visibility, especially the sidelights. It's highly unlikely that their sidelights would be seen at 5 or 6 miles. It's a little known fact that sternlights were not compulsory at the time, so they were not necessarily shown.
Dave Gittins
Member
I had a look at the business of the schooner seen from Mount Temple. I did not work it all out with great precision because it is obvious at a glance that it is of no importance to the Titanic story.
Moore was steering for the erroneous SOS position given by Boxhall. He started from a point about 49 miles from that position and about 61 miles from the real scene of the wreck.
He sighted the light of the schooner at 3-00 a.m. His clock was set to much the same time as Titanic’s. (We can’t be dead sure of the details) In round figures, he was still a good 30 miles from the wreck. The schooner coming away from the SOS position but was nearly stationary in the calm weather, so there is no way that it could have been anywhere near Titanic during the sinking. It was probably just beyond the visible range of Titanic’s distress signals.
Moore was accompanied by a mysterious steamer that seems to have had no radio. She left the western side of the icefield and her captain was oblivious to the night’s events. She was never identified, in spite of serious efforts by both the British and the Americans. She too, was never close to Titanic during the sinking, as she arrived with Mount Temple.
Another ship in the area was seen by Carpathia. Rostron gave the time as 3-00 a.m. but as I have shown elsewhere, Rostron’s times are suspect. If this one is correct, he was over 10 miles from the boats when a steamer crossed his bow. It was heading perhaps W or SW. Assuming it was going at a reasonable speed, say 11 or 12 knots, it would have been well away from the sinking too.
Note that all the ships, other than Californian, that were seen somewhere about the area were to the south of Titanic’s latitude. The lights seen from Titanic were in the northerly quadrant.
Mystery surrounds the doings of a ship with a pink funnel with a black top that was on the western side of the ice on the morning of April 15th. Captain Lord later identified her as Almerian, a fellow Leyland Line ship with no radio. I believe nobody has found how she reached the scene. One wonders whether Captain Moore was mistaken in thinking that the ship he saw had a black funnel with a white band. Nobody else seems to have noticed such a ship in the morning but Cyril Evans noticed Almerian and Rostron saw a ship of her type near Mount Temple. In the absence of the ship with the black funnel, I’m inclined to think that Moore saw Almerian.
Moore was steering for the erroneous SOS position given by Boxhall. He started from a point about 49 miles from that position and about 61 miles from the real scene of the wreck.
He sighted the light of the schooner at 3-00 a.m. His clock was set to much the same time as Titanic’s. (We can’t be dead sure of the details) In round figures, he was still a good 30 miles from the wreck. The schooner coming away from the SOS position but was nearly stationary in the calm weather, so there is no way that it could have been anywhere near Titanic during the sinking. It was probably just beyond the visible range of Titanic’s distress signals.
Moore was accompanied by a mysterious steamer that seems to have had no radio. She left the western side of the icefield and her captain was oblivious to the night’s events. She was never identified, in spite of serious efforts by both the British and the Americans. She too, was never close to Titanic during the sinking, as she arrived with Mount Temple.
Another ship in the area was seen by Carpathia. Rostron gave the time as 3-00 a.m. but as I have shown elsewhere, Rostron’s times are suspect. If this one is correct, he was over 10 miles from the boats when a steamer crossed his bow. It was heading perhaps W or SW. Assuming it was going at a reasonable speed, say 11 or 12 knots, it would have been well away from the sinking too.
Note that all the ships, other than Californian, that were seen somewhere about the area were to the south of Titanic’s latitude. The lights seen from Titanic were in the northerly quadrant.
Mystery surrounds the doings of a ship with a pink funnel with a black top that was on the western side of the ice on the morning of April 15th. Captain Lord later identified her as Almerian, a fellow Leyland Line ship with no radio. I believe nobody has found how she reached the scene. One wonders whether Captain Moore was mistaken in thinking that the ship he saw had a black funnel with a white band. Nobody else seems to have noticed such a ship in the morning but Cyril Evans noticed Almerian and Rostron saw a ship of her type near Mount Temple. In the absence of the ship with the black funnel, I’m inclined to think that Moore saw Almerian.
Norman Olsen
Member
David, Thanks for your information. Looks like if Titanic hit that berg a little farther South, she would have a lot of help that night. I knew there were others in the general area, but I didn't have all the info you have. Thanks again. Norm
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