Californian's wreck

[Brandon Whited]

Hello,

I am aware that the R.M.S. Californian, like R.M.S. Carpathia, was lost to a torpedoe in World War I. Has her wreck ever been found or explored? I have heard nothing ever said about it.


Cheers,

-B.W.

 

[Mark Chirnside]

RMS needs 16 knots, if I recall. Californian had at most 13 or 13 1/2 knots. I think it might be 'SS'.

 

[Erik Wood]

I am pretty sure that it is SS.

Erik

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Hi Brandon, I've been doing some research into the Californian and might be of some help on this. The RMS lable means "Royal Mail Steamer" which was a title given only to ships which were under contract to carry the mails. The Californian was a humble little frighter which made 13 1/5 knots on trials, though apparently never did this in service. No real shock there as the ship wouldn't have been weighed down by cargo on trials.

She was torpedoed and sunk off Cape Matapan in the Mediterranean during the First World War on 09 November 1915. To my knowledge, the wreck has never been located or explored.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Erik Wood]

Hmmm, the wreck has never been found??? This might be something for Robert Ballard.

Erik

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Robert Ballard?

We-l-l-l, why not? Love him or leave him, he's accomplished a lot and he's shown quite a talant for finding shipwrecks once he's set his mind to it. The Titanic, the Bismark, the Yorktown...

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Brandon Whited]

Hello,

Thanks everyone for the information. The Californian is starting to sound like an interesting vessel in its own right. If it was so slow, then it basically wouldn't have even been able to reach the Titanic in time to do anything, don't you think?


Cheers,

-B.W.

 

[Tracy Smith]

Its lack of speed was not really a factor. No ship was going to race through that ice field in the middle of the night at full speed, if they had any hope of making it to the other side in one piece.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Brandon, the real point in controversy in regards the Californian is the distances they were seperated. Here, I'll play the role of nuetral observer in my remarks.

Supporters of Captain Lord quite passionately insist the Californian was distant by 19-21 miles, and if such is the case, then there is no chance she could have made it befor the Titanic went under.

Captain Lord's critics assert with equal passion that the Californian was much closer...say between 8-12 miles. If this is the case, then it is possible that she could have made it there around two-ish in the morning. Anyone she could have saved then would have had to chance the freezing waters and swim for whatever boats were made available. Pulling up alongside as Lightoller suggested in an interview would have been out of the question, and I can't see anybody in a few rowboats pulling up alongside a rapidly sinking ship where they would find a mob of 1600+ people waiting for them.

It's an ugly scene either way!

And I tend to believe Tracy is right in her comments. Captain Lord knew he was surrounded by dense pack ice and I can't see him doing anything as reckless as charging through an icepack at night where he couldn't readily see what they were navigating through or what was on the other side of the bergs they could see.

Navigating an ice field is a very dangerous game! The Titanic learned this the hard way!

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[James T. Shorter]

Hello,

Thanks everyone for the information. The Californian is starting to sound like an interesting vessel in its own right. If it was so slow, then it basically wouldn't have even been able to reach the Titanic in time to do anything, don't you think?


Cheers, View attachment 6054

-B.W.

No if it was 10 miles away it still could have gotten there however there is evidence to show that ship on the horizon was not the Californian let me explane

The ship the Titanic saw on the horizon eventually moved and they couldn't see it anymore the Californian remained stationary all night because of the ice field i this is true and the SS Californian did not move then the ship they saw could not have been her however we do still know that the Californian was close because her wireless signals were very loud to the Titanic indicating she was close by whatever the situation if the Californian or whatever ship was on the horizon was indeed 10 miles away they almost certainly could have gotten there on time

I would like to edit my statement as Mr Michael H. Standart was saying it would have been very reckless to charge through an ice field at night with low to no visibility the danger would be the fact that if something happens to the Californian you closest ship is Titanic and she is also sinking so now in addition to the Titanic the surrounding ships now have to hear the Californians distress calls wich could have made it hard for them to rescue Titanic

Note: if I have any information incorrect PLEASE correct me

Regards
-James T Shorter

 

[Ezekiel]

Never found, never even looked for, I think.

The sea where she sank is about 1,500 meters deep.

I can't see anybody in a few rowboats pulling up alongside a rapidly sinking ship where they would find a mob of 1600+ people waiting for them.

Why not, been done in plenty other maritime disasters. We know that around 2:00 AM Titanic had only about twenty minutes left, but those on Californian did not.

 

[James T. Shorter]

Never found, never even looked for, I think.

The sea where she sank is about 1,500 meters deep.



Why not, been done in plenty other maritime disasters. We know that around 2:00 AM Titanic had only about twenty minutes left, but those on Californian did not.

I think it would be a matter o getting there once they are there I have no doubt they would do every thing in their power to help
Cheers
-James T. Shorter

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Why not, been done in plenty other maritime disasters.

Cool. How often have rescue vessels sent a few boats over to try and evacuate a mob 1600 strong from a ship on the verge of going down. Start naming them.
Oh...wait...you really can't. It hasn't happened.

We know that around 2:00 AM Titanic had only about twenty minutes left, but those on Californian did not.

That's really a non-point since the Californian didn't have any information to the effect that it was the Titanic that was in trouble until they switched on their wireless at around 4ish in the morning.

No matter, any reasonably competent mariner would be able to get a sense of when a sinking ship's stability is about to go south on them. At 2am, the bow was submerged and had the Californian arrived at that time, they would have known the Titanic's time was way too short. The Californian had a very few boats and the prudent course would have been to stand off and let them fish as many out of the water as possible.

 

[Ezekiel]

Cool. How often have rescue vessels sent a few boats over to try and evacuate a mob 1600 strong from a ship on the verge of going down. Start naming them.
Oh...wait...you really can't. It hasn't happened.

Too bad, I can. Andrea Doria, Principessa Mafalda, just to name a couple of the most famous off the top of my head.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Too bad, I can. Andrea Doria, Principessa Mafalda, just to name a couple of the most famous off the top of my head.

No, you can't and you didn't. Andrea Doria took all night and most of the morning to sink and that made it possible to ferry the survivors from the stricken vessel to the rescue vessel. There was no panic either.

With the Principessa Mafalda a number of rescue vessels showed up but the kept a distance because they feared a boiler explosion while the boats pretty much picked up swimmers.

It also wasn't a mob 1500 to 1600 strong.