Canadian sub 57 trapped


Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
Not a very pretty picture here. Submarines which get in trouble out on the open ocean tend not to make it back to port or...if they do...end up making a one way trip to the scrapyard. These former Upholder clas boats have been the source of a lot of trouble, but if the Canadian Navy want to maintain a useful submarine capability, they're going to have to make these vessels work out. The elderly Oberon class boats they've been operating have been in need of replacement for quite some time now.
 

Wesley Burton

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Apr 22, 2004
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I think we should be building our own submarines. All we have are old second hand boats. This incident has proved yet again that they are not reliable.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Well, in fairness to the Royal Navy, these boats were paid off into reserve almost as soon as they were accepted so they may not have had adaquate operating experience to identify the sort of problems that would have been identified and worked out otherwise. I don't think you'll see Canada building her own submarines any time soon. Their requirements at the present don't call for a lot of boats. Certainly not enough to justify the sort of cost involved in building up a local submarine construction capability.
 

Paul Rogers

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Nov 30, 2000
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Re Upholder Class submarines: Nice boats IMHO, especially in comparison to the Oberon Class, which were only just post-WWII in terms of their capability and design. Having visited an Oberon sub, I can attest also to their, um, "economic use of space". Personally, I think the UK should have kept a diesel boat capability for coastal defence purposes.

It may be apocryphal, but an Oberon ex-submariner with whom I worked used to recount stories of "under-hulling;" i.e. taking photographs through the periscope of the bottom/hull of Soviet ships. He made the point that diesel boats can be completely silent when performing this type of manoeuvre, unlike SSNs.

The main technical details of the Upholder Class can be found all over the 'net and also HERE
 

Wesley Burton

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Apr 22, 2004
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Yeah I heard diesels can be very quiet. I am told that they used to make the americans mad during war games.
 

Jason D. Tiller

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According to what I heard on the news earlier, another crew member is in critical but stable condition in hospital in Ireland. I'm just hoping that the sub can be towed back to shore, before anything else happens.

You're right Mike, Canada does not have any plans to build any subs in the future, as the money is not there. While I do support building our own subs, the older ones that were in use needed to be replaced badly. Canada thought it was getting a bargain when it purchased the two subs, but now that may not be the case.

Now, the finger pointing and the questions as to why this happened begin.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Canada thought it was getting a bargain when it purchased the two subs, but now that may not be the case.<<

Well, it was that or go without. Apparently. "Go without" was not acceptable to the government. I suspect that the Royal Navy will probably regret the day they decided to go all nuclear and give up on diesel boats. While such craft don't have the sort of long range capability of nuclear powered ships much less the endurance, they can be as silent as a hole in the water and are the very devil to find for surface ASW forces. Especially in reletively shallow waters where poor acoustic conditions can raise all kinds of hell with active and passive sensors.

On the matter of silencing, don't shortsell a nuclear powered submarine. Silencing technology has made great strides to the point where they can be among the most difficult to detect and the toughest to catch even if you do find them. Some of the quietest boats on the face of the Earth are the latest generations of ballistic missile subs and the latest are all nuclear powered.
 
Mar 28, 2002
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Thanks, Jason. Tried to post it there at first but there was no "Start Thread" facility.

Apparently the sub has been towed back to Faslane from where it started out. I wonder what will happen to it now.

Cheers,

Boz
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Apparently the sub has been towed back to Faslane from where it started out.<<

That's good news there.

>>I wonder what will happen to it now.<<

That would depend a lot on the nature and extent of the damage. The Canadians could decide to refit the vessel, but it's very rare lately that a submarine suffers a casualty like this which doesn't end up being written off as a constructive total loss. A point in this boat's favour is that she's reletively new. Were she a lot older, I doubt they'ed even bother doing anything but turning her into disposable razor blades.
 

Jason D. Tiller

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You're welcome Boz, no worries. I didn't even notice that the topic was closed.

I said:

"Canada thought it was getting a bargain when it purchased the two subs..."

That's incorrect, make that four subs.
 

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