Captain Smith's role in the disaster


Jim Currie

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Hi so I decided to include this for Captain Smith as was repeatedly played by the band
Abide With Me by King's College Choir of Cambridge - Songfacts

A beautiful version is sung by Hayley Westenra of Christchurch City New Zealand. We played it as the opening hymn at our baby boy Matthew's funeral mass - so I offer this up for Captain Smith, Captain of the Titanic - RIP.


Lyrics
Abide with me
fast falls the eventide
The darkness deepens
Lord, with me abide
When other helpers fail and comforts flee
Help of the helpless
oh, abide with me.

Swift to its close ebbs out life’s little day
Earth’s joys grow dim
Its glories pass away
Change and decay in all around I see
— O Thou who changest not, abide with me.

Hold Thou Thy cross before my closing eyes
Shine through the gloom and point me to the skies
Heaven's morning breaks
and earth's vain shadows flee
In life, in death
O Lord, abide with me.
In life, in death
O Lord, abide with me.
It is also known as "The Sailor's Hymn" among seafarers,Stephen. sung beautifully by a woman blessed with a "heavenly" voice. I know exactly how you and yours felt on hearing that... I went through much the same thing very recently...but at the opposite ends of life's journey. Thank you for sharing.

PS You should hear her on "Celtic Women"... truly amazing.
 

Aly Jones

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RMS Titanic, Inc. has posted this on their blog:

What role do you think Captain Smith played in the Titanic disaster? Was he a hero, or is he responsible for the deaths of those who didn't survive the sinking? Leave your feedback in the comment section...

Innocuous question? What are your reactions?

P.S. Happy 161st birthday to Captain Smith.
Certainatly not how James Cameron portrayed him. There're eye witness accounts from passengers that saw him out and about and that he didn't just walk to the bridge to die and to leave the remainder of passengers and crew to defend for themselves.

Yes he was at fault, the saftey of the ship and crew and passengers are his responsibility but he wasn't a coward that night.

Be nice to watch a new titanic movie without American bias attached to it.
 
Nov 14, 2005
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"Be nice to watch a new titanic movie without American bias attached to it."
James Cameron is a canadian american. If you want to insult us thats fine. But try to be a little more specific.
 
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Gary Cooper

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It wasn't necessarily James Cameron's personal choice to have Smith retire to the wheelhouse. Bernard Hill who played Smith told me back in 2012, that Mr Cameron asked him how he wanted to show Smith dying and Bernard Hill suggested that he should go back to the bridge. Plus there are accounts that place Smith on the bridge or bridge wing at the end.
 
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Aly Jones

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It wasn't necessarily James Cameron's personal choice to have Smith retire to the wheelhouse. Bernard Hill who played Smith told me back in 2012, that Mr Cameron asked him how he wanted to show Smith dying and Bernard Hill suggested that he should go back to the bridge. Plus there are accounts that place Smith on the bridge or bridge wing at the end.
I'm really sorry but I don't really believe this at all. James Cameron had heaps of options to decide on smith's ending. And as if JC would ask a not so well known actor to pick smith's ending.

There was another reference in the movie suggested that America and Americans were better than English and Europeans. That reference was -

An officer asking jack have you've been through the expection? Jack says yes but we're Americans anyway. Wow really JC? -(And I doubt in real life officer would take 3rd class passenger word for it) Another dig at English and Europeans. So no I don't believe your story sorry unless you have proof.

ANTR is a British film, and had no anti American in it. I really wish American producer focus on doing great films instead of focusing on who is better. Cause American movies are really the best. Shame with the anti though.


And no I don't hate Americans at all. I really don't.
 

Aly Jones

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James Cameron had a choice. This one would had been perfect. But for some reason he made out captain Smith to be a coward
 

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Rennette Marston

Rennette Marston
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P.S.: the wreck is a hoax. The Titanic never sank at all. She transformed into a new ship called the Imperator. I'm not joking!

The Imperator at her launch, 1912:

View attachment 48291
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The Titanic at her launch, 1911:

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S.S. Titanic:

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S.S. Imperator:

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The Titanic with three funnels. She looks a lot like the Imperator, doesn't she?

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Oh... You again. Can't you just go away? What's next, the Lusitania is fake, too?
 
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Rennette Marston

Rennette Marston
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P.S.: the wreck is a hoax. The Titanic never sank at all. She transformed into a new ship called the Imperator. I'm not joking!

The Imperator at her launch, 1912:

View attachment 48291
View attachment 48292

The Titanic at her launch, 1911:

View attachment 48293
View attachment 48294

S.S. Titanic:

View attachment 48295
View attachment 48296

S.S. Imperator:

View attachment 48297
View attachment 48298

The Titanic with three funnels. She looks a lot like the Imperator, doesn't she?

View attachment 48299

It's sad that some people get completely brainwashed by these storytellers. Everyone who have studied these ships a little can use their imagination, just as "Miles Mathis" can fabricate a false "theory". "Harry Forbs Jenkins" is almost everywhere in the YouTube comment sections as "Henry Ford." It doesn't matter how many people try to talk sense to him. He NEVER gets it. At first I actually thought he was joking.
 
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Jim Currie

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If such a peson exits, then he is a very clever dude. Because he has others actually wasting valuable time counteracting fairy tales. On the other, hand, clowns like this have their uses...they make sesible folk take their research seriously and accidentl y enhance the knowledge of such sensible folk by making them dig deeper to build their knowledge of the tuth. This happens when they search for a counter -argument to abject rubbish.
For instance, a deep "dig" will show that the set up for the building, completion and subsequent registration of a new ship is so complicated that a fake would be spotted by an expert.
 
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Rennette Marston

Rennette Marston
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Yup. Exactly. Sometimes, stupid comments like Harry's DESERVE stupid responses. Yes, the Titanic never really sank. She was sold to Germany's HAPAG where she eventually transformed into the S.S. Imperator. The White Star Line knew that the Titanic would never beat the Olympic's track record she set as the world's largest and arguably most luxurious ship in the world. The Titanic wreck is a Hollywood movie-prop filmed in a huge pool at a navy base in Nova Scotia, courtesy James Cameron and the Rothschilds. The REAL Titanic was continuously updated for many years until she became the Queen Mary 2. All of the "dead" were reptilians who had to be killed because their human disguises failed to hide their true identities. Clearly a malicious hoax by the evil crypto-Jewish Phoenician pirates and their reptoid proxies who run the world.
 
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Aly Jones

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It's sad that some people get completely brainwashed by these storytellers. Everyone who have studied these ships a little can use their imagination, just as "Miles Mathis" can fabricate a false "theory". "Harry Forbs Jenkins" is almost everywhere in the YouTube comment sections as "Henry Ford." It doesn't matter how many people try to talk sense to him. He NEVER gets it. At first I actually thought he was joking.
Titanic is on the bottom of the ocean ( we have prove) and it's an Olympic class design down there. Olympic was sailing when imperator was launched. What a crazy man.
 
May 3, 2005
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Certainatly not how James Cameron portrayed him. There're eye witness accounts from passengers that saw him out and about and that he didn't just walk to the bridge to die and to leave the remainder of passengers and crew to defend for themselves.

Yes he was at fault, the saftey of the ship and crew and passengers are his responsibility but he wasn't a coward that night.

Be nice to watch a new titanic movie without American bias attached to it.
You might say "A Night To Remember" also had a little British bias attached to it.
Especially in the depiction of Margaret Brown in the dinner scene.
And the "Ugly Americans" scene where Lightoller is called out with "Hey, Lieutenant !".
 
May 3, 2005
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Yes it did, not going to lie about that. But I don't recall any scene with ugly American being said???
I would have to check back for the timing of the scene.
But it takes place just after Lightoller is relieved and is walking around the ship.
He goes through what appears to be one of the public areas.
There is a group of American men and their wives having drinks and one man is smoking a cigar.
As Lightoller passes one of them shouts out "Hey ! Lieutenant ! "and explains that they are going to place bets on the time Titanic will arrive in New York and an officer could tell them.
Lightoller replies that he wouldn't tell them because "You wouldn't want to bet on a sure thing."
There was a review or comment somewhere that this was thought to be a depiction of "The ugly American."
And this scene was probably something that never did or never would have ever happened.
 
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May 3, 2005
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Jim, I find you not guilty. In your postings you do not patronise or belittle the contributions of us landlubbers, even though your knowledge and experience of the sea and ships far outweighs that of some others who do. When an armchair sailor (like myself!) reveals his or her misconceptions you do not scoff or berate. You patiently explain, always with good humour. And long may you continue to do so!
Thanks, Bob -
You said it a lot better than I could.
And my apologies for getting off topic.
This thread was supposed to be about Captain Smith, wasn't it ?
In my rather brief Naval service I don't recall ever having any personal contact with any ship's Captain so I will have to rely on from what Jim and Sam have to say.
 
Jun 12, 2021
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Bob:

Thank you very much for some much-needed oil upon the water. I still think I should be absent from these pages for a bit, because I am having a lot of trouble with the didacticism I get whenever I touch upon the subject of the Cameron film.

Like it or not, that film is part of Titanic's cultural significance, because it is the main source of information most people have about the event of her sinking. Whether or not it is accurate in every least detail is certainly cause for informed discussion, but I can get a little tired of the blasts that come my way when I mention it.

For Mr. Standart: The eyewitness accounts of Captain Smith's conduct during the sinking are extremely valuable, but I consider them only one piece of a very large and very complex puzzle. It should be recalled that a number of eyewitness accounts - including Lightoller's - had Titanic sinking intact, leading to both the Senate's and the Board of Trade's finding that she sank intact, a view rather thoroughly disproved by later exploration and analysis.

I leave all of you for a little while, and I hope to be back sooner rather than later.
I realize that I am about 8 years too late to the conversation, but I too have this issue when mentioning James Cameron's TITANIC. I find the film to be absolutely brilliant and this was considered a "faux pas" amongst my peers as I was pursuing my degree in history. It is often forgotten that the film itself is a memory; a memory from a fictional survivor that Cameron created by quilting together aspects of actual survivor testimony. I've listened to hours upon hours of survivor testimony and I know exactly which ones he chose. That's not to say that there weren't other eyewitnesses who remembered things differently. The name of the game in the years since the film's success has been to discredit every portion of the film systematically which means discrediting survivor testimony. Elizabeth Lines testimony about overhearing Ismay urging Smith to get to New York on Tuesday to beat the Olympic? DOUBTED. Helen Candee's personal writings about her trips to the bow which inspired the final sunset scene? FICTION. Eva Hart's recollection of seeing the ship break in half and stand straight up in the water for "quiet a long time, or what seemed like a long time" as seen in the film? DIDN'T HAPPEN. There seems to be an absurd and, frankly, ridiculous animosity toward Cameron's film amongst cyber historians. There is a tremendous wealth of information in Cameron's film that goes unnoticed. The most valid complaint I've heard is Cameron showing some of the gates locked in the film - Though this same thing is shown in A Night to Remember, it does not receive the venom that Cameron's film does. In fact, it rarely seems to be criticized despite its glaring flaws. You are correct about Cameron's impact of the interest in Titanic as well. I remember doing a report on Titanic in 4th grade (a couple of years prior to the film). I was fascinated by this ship that so few people had heard of, adults of kids. Some adults knew the name of the ship and that it sank but not much more. Finally, the thing I discovered at the university was that those who criticized my love and defense of Cameron's Titanic knew very little about the subject at all. They had not listened to interview after interview or read testimony etc. Saying that you didn't like the film was almost like the thing you were "supposed" to say, and then quickly follow it by stating "I prefer 'A Night to Remember," that is the most historically accurate Titanic film!" Cameron's film is my favorite though and I have no shame in it. And, how I wish I could have seen that film set! :)
 
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