Carpathia Bronze Crew Medal


D

David Maxwell

Guest
Can anyone give an approximate valuation (Pounds Sterling) as to how much a bronze medal as awarded to the Carpathia's crew by the survivors might be worth?
Thanks
 
G

Gavin Murphy

Guest
D,

I can't help you out on this matter, but would like to know myself. It seems to me that the crew got bronze and the officers silver ones.

Could somebody clarify if I am wrong.

Then of course there was Rostron's cup and American Senate citation........

Ta.

G
 

Senan Molony

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Jun 28, 1998
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Yeah, I was only kidding... you never know...

Late last year I was in the National Library and came across what I think might be the only detailed account of the presentation of the medals. It is certainly the only account of Rostron's "speech to the troops", and mentions the various grades of metals involved in the
medal presentation.

Here it is, makes a good read -

The Titanic Inquiry
The Presentation to Carpathia Heroes
Full Details
(From our correspondent, Queenstown, Saturday.)

The Cunard liner Caronia arrived today from New York, bringing full particulars of the presentation to Captain Arthur H. Rostron of a massive silver cup and a gold medal recently in America, also presentations to each member of the crew of the Cunard liner Carpathia, who rescued a great number of lives from the ill-fated steamer Titanic.
The medals and cup were bought with a fund subscribed by those who were taken out of the Titanic's boats. In addition to the medals given, each of them will receive an extra month's pay from the Cunard Line.
The presentation was made in the Carpathia's saloon when she arrived from the Mediterranean by a committee, of which Frederick K. Seward of New York was the chairman. The other members of the committee were Mrs J.J. Brown, Lieutenant Steffansen of the Swedish Army, and N. O. Spedan, Carl Behr, J.G. Frauenthal, and George A. Harder.
Captain Rostron and his officers were in their dress uniforms, the former wearing the sword he is entitled to wear as a member of the Royal Navy Reserve.
The others, stokers and pantrymen, however, came up for medals dressed in the clothes which they wear on duty. The scene brought a mist before the eyes of many, and when Captain Rostron delivered a brief speech in answer to an address by Mr Seward, more than one person present seemed on the verge of tears.
After the way of good seamen, Captain Rostron disclaimed the chief credit for the work in saving those who were left helpless on a lonely sea when the Titanic went to the bottom. "Without an eager and brave crew," said Captain Rostron, "I feel there would have been no rescue at all; and while I thank for the committee for the cup and their praise of me and my officers, I want to thank every man and woman in my crew for their gallant and fine conduct under most difficult conditions. I am humbly proud of every man and woman in this ship's company."
It had been arranged that those who were to get bronze medals were to receive them after the gold and silver medals had been given to the officers, but at the conclusion of Captain Rostron's speech, the survivors committee decided that every medal on the table should be bestowed at once. Accordingly, the men and women from on deck and below were formed in lines and received their medals. Some of the firemen took their medals in hands so grimy as to seem hardly the hands of white men. But the smiles they wore made their black faces as luminous as suns.
Captain Rostron and his officers hurried from the saloon as soon as the last medal was bestowed, giving as an excuse that they had work to do and very little time in which to do it.

Cork Free Press, June 10, 1912, p.6.
(spelling as in original)
 
D

David Maxwell

Guest
I do not have the medal but have been offered it myself. Unfortunately I have no idea of its value.

In answering one of the other questions, the crew did get bronze medals and the officers silver ones.
 

Mark S Zaid

Member
May 2, 2006
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I'd be most grateful if anyone could point me to owners of Carpathia medals who might be interested in selling.

Additionally, if anyone has any past sales data for Carpathia medals, that would be very interesting to see.

Thanks!
 

Mark S Zaid

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May 2, 2006
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I am looking to be put in contact with any owners of Carpathia medals (bronze, silver or gold). Any information would be greatly appreciated!

[Moderator's note: This post was in another thread started today in this topic, but has been moved to the pre-existing one on the same subject. JDT]
 
Mar 20, 2000
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Hi, Mark:

George Behe has one or two of the Carpathia medals. I was lucky to be able to see and hold one of them at a get-together we had here in Texas a few years ago. If you want to contact me privately, I can put you in touch with him.

Randy
 

Senan Molony

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Jun 28, 1998
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>>if anyone has any past sales data for Carpathia medals, that would be very interesting to see. <<

The record for a silver medal was set on Wednesday, 22 January 2003 at Bonham's auction house in New Bond Street, London.

John George Richardson was serving as 6th Engineer on the Carpathia on the fate-laden voyage.

His medal was sold for a hammer price of £14,100 Sterling (15pc buyer's premium and a further 2pc VAT overall to be added).
 
Sep 3, 2004
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There is one important factor in the price on that medal to be considered, the lot included a stunning 18ct gold pocket watch with the inscription "Presented to J. Richardson as a mark of appreciation for conspicuous service rendered RMS Titanic 15th April 1912". The lot comprised of this watch, the medal, photos and other paperwork. The watch alone was worth around £8000-£10000, so in all made for quite a reasonably priced medal in the purchase really!!
 

Senan Molony

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Jun 28, 1998
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Hey Rew,

Is there any chance of you posting on your website the prices fetched in last Saturday's sale?

For those of us who like to keep abreast of such things?

You doubtless heard of the Liverpool auction...
 
Sep 3, 2004
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Hi Senan,

I am putting together the press release for the sale at the minute, so will post that when completed. We dont list the full prices realised on the website but I would be happy to look up a couple of numbers for you, just drop me an email with the details.

Indeed I did hear about the Liverpool auction, were you there?
 

Senan Molony

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Jun 28, 1998
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I was! Non-bidding!!
(Mind you, neither was anyone else
wink.gif
 

Mark S Zaid

Member
May 2, 2006
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Andrew, what would your assessment be for the "cost" of the Silver medal alone in that lot in light of the important additional facts you noted?
 

Ernie Luck

Member
Nov 24, 2004
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Mark

I don't know whether you would be interested but I know of a reputable Medal Dealer who was advertising a transport medal. Not memorabilia as such but does have a connection with Capt. Smith it being one of the medals he was so proud of. Only 3000 were ever issued - for the China & Boer Wars, so they have gained a rarity value.

You can read about this medal under crew research - sub-thread Smith's medals.
 

Ernie Luck

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Nov 24, 2004
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Mark

a small addendum: Capt. Rostron also received the Transport medal and his was presented by King Edward V11, no less.
 

Senan Molony

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Jun 28, 1998
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You have to be very careful with Carpathia medals as there are many, many fakes. They are usually easy to spot.

Beware of any that have central additions, such as a name (usually of a bona fide crew member). These are generally "engraved later" to cover up for the fact that the embossed word COPY has been filed away from reproductions originally procured by the THS.

At the same time, however, a genuine one has sold on eBay for around $11,000 with its original Dieges & Klust box, which is very scarce. They were the New York makers.

One much-discussed Carpathia medal in the name of Evan Henry Hughes, Chief Steward, first appeared at auction in Sotheby's on July 7, 1998.

Lot 99, it was knocked down for £8,050 Sterling including buyer's fee. The Sotheby catalogue stated that it was "a piece of uncertain status lacking the usual reverse inscription in relief and therefore possibly a cast copy."

It was stated that it "seems likely that the present piece was prepared subsequently for Mr Hughes, perhaps as a private order," but added: "Its well-worn and re-mounted condition presents some difficulty..."

Its weight, at a shade under 15 grams was some 1.5 grams lighter than the gold medal awarded to Fifth officer Gustav J. Roth.

This gold medal was sold by Sotheby's of New York on July 29, 1997.

Lot 492 represents a World Record for a Carpathia medal. The Roth example was sold for $55,000 USD.

Re-casts from originals, which make convincing fakes, involve measurable shrinkage from the original size. So you have to be extremely careful.

Beware of all those that appear to be planed down for customized or named recipient inscriptions.

I don't have any such medal myself, but I know at least two people who bought accomplished fakes believing them to be genuine.

Once you have parted with your money, there is no comeback. Take any item considered for purchase to reputable assessors and valuers like Henry Aldridge & Co.
 

Ernie Luck

Member
Nov 24, 2004
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>>Are you sure it's definitely not Edward VI ½ ?<<

Not sure of anything these days, Senan.

I would be worried about spending real money on a medal without good provenance. The going rate for a Transport medal is £650. Somewhere in a cupboard I have got a copy of the medal rolls for every one issued.

p.s. each medal is inscribed with the name of the recipient.
 

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