Carpathia Bronze Crew Medal

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Ernie Luck

Member
Mark

I don't know whether you would be interested but I know of a reputable Medal Dealer who was advertising a transport medal. Not memorabilia as such but does have a connection with Capt. Smith it being one of the medals he was so proud of. Only 3000 were ever issued - for the China & Boer Wars, so they have gained a rarity value.

You can read about this medal under crew research - sub-thread Smith's medals.
 
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Ernie Luck

Member
Mark

a small addendum: Capt. Rostron also received the Transport medal and his was presented by King Edward V11, no less.
 
S

Senan Molony

Member
>>presented by King Edward V11, no less.<<

Are you sure it's definitely not Edward VI ½ ?
 
S

Senan Molony

Member
You have to be very careful with Carpathia medals as there are many, many fakes. They are usually easy to spot.

Beware of any that have central additions, such as a name (usually of a bona fide crew member). These are generally "engraved later" to cover up for the fact that the embossed word COPY has been filed away from reproductions originally procured by the THS.

At the same time, however, a genuine one has sold on eBay for around $11,000 with its original Dieges & Klust box, which is very scarce. They were the New York makers.

One much-discussed Carpathia medal in the name of Evan Henry Hughes, Chief Steward, first appeared at auction in Sotheby's on July 7, 1998.

Lot 99, it was knocked down for £8,050 Sterling including buyer's fee. The Sotheby catalogue stated that it was "a piece of uncertain status lacking the usual reverse inscription in relief and therefore possibly a cast copy."

It was stated that it "seems likely that the present piece was prepared subsequently for Mr Hughes, perhaps as a private order," but added: "Its well-worn and re-mounted condition presents some difficulty..."

Its weight, at a shade under 15 grams was some 1.5 grams lighter than the gold medal awarded to Fifth officer Gustav J. Roth.

This gold medal was sold by Sotheby's of New York on July 29, 1997.

Lot 492 represents a World Record for a Carpathia medal. The Roth example was sold for $55,000 USD.

Re-casts from originals, which make convincing fakes, involve measurable shrinkage from the original size. So you have to be extremely careful.

Beware of all those that appear to be planed down for customized or named recipient inscriptions.

I don't have any such medal myself, but I know at least two people who bought accomplished fakes believing them to be genuine.

Once you have parted with your money, there is no comeback. Take any item considered for purchase to reputable assessors and valuers like Henry Aldridge & Co.
 
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Ernie Luck

Member
>>Are you sure it's definitely not Edward VI ½ ?<<

Not sure of anything these days, Senan.

I would be worried about spending real money on a medal without good provenance. The going rate for a Transport medal is £650. Somewhere in a cupboard I have got a copy of the medal rolls for every one issued.

p.s. each medal is inscribed with the name of the recipient.
 
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Kalman Tanito

Member
The Rath lot included a number of original photographs and other documents as well, including a letter of commendation from Captain Rostron.

What IS quite a coincidence is that when I was talking about Rath to Arpad Lengyel's (the Carpathia's Hungarian doctor) granddaughter, it turned out that the family knew some of Rath's relatives in Budapest, who have a few photos sent by Rath back home.
 
A

Andrew Aldridge

Member
Mark,

I think £7000-£10000 would be fair for a good example of a silver medal in todays market.

Best Wishes

Andrew
 
M

Mark S Zaid

Member
I finally obtained a Silver medal (which I certainly hope is authentic!)!!!

Morton & Eden LTD held an auction last month. Two bronzes were auctioned, and they went for a hefty sum! I think the publicity surrounding the bronze medals enabled me to "steal" the Silver. You can see it at:

mortonandeden.com/pdfcats/21web.pdf

Lot 108
Carpathia Medal, 1912, in silver, as awarded to junior officers, by Dieges and Clust of New York, reverse stamped 'Sterling', engraved in capitals between the date and the maker's name D. Colquhoun, good very fine, a rare named award in silver.

D. N. COLQUHOUN was born in North Shields and was 7th Engineer of R.M.S. Carpathia. He was 29 years old at the time of the rescue of the Titanic survivors.

The medal was given to the present owner in 1958, when he was working for the Rank Organisation's publicity department, and it was used to publicize the film "A Night to Remember".

Estimate was £3,000-4,000. With the BP, I paid £5300.

Now all I need is a gold medal, but with prices around $50,000, unfortunately that is not happening soon!
 

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Trevor Powell

Member
Congratulations, Mark! The medal comes with quite an interesting story. Did you obtain anything else from that auction?
 
Greg C. Brown

Greg C. Brown

Member
Dear Ernie,

I am a credentialed appraiser through the International Society of Appraisers (ISA), as an ISA AM. I have a potential client who just contacted me who claims to have two Capathia bronze medals, one with the original box and paper work, and at least one original letter from Capt. Roston. I was wondering if you would not mind sending me the roll for the medals that you mention in your post please, or referring me to where I might find it.

I was fortunate enough to be hire by Admiralty Lawyer, Peter Hess, who defended RMS Titanic, Inc (Premiere Exhibitions, Inc.) to work on the 2009 Federal court case dealing with the recovered RMS Titanic artifacts. I have since had a number of people contact me about such items.

Thank you, Greg C. Brown, M.S., ISA AM
President, Greg C. Brown & Associates
President, WA Lewis & Clark Chapter of the International Society of Appraisers
MN Sub-Chapter Chairman, The Explorers Club (2009-2014)
1-888-815-9430
[email protected]
 
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Ernest Luck

Member
Dear Ernie,

I am a credentialed appraiser through the International Society of Appraisers (ISA), as an ISA AM. I have a potential client who just contacted me who claims to have two Capathia bronze medals, one with the original box and paper work, and at least one original letter from Capt. Roston. I was wondering if you would not mind sending me the roll for the medals that you mention in your post please, or referring me to where I might find it.

I was fortunate enough to be hire by Admiralty Lawyer, Peter Hess, who defended RMS Titanic, Inc (Premiere Exhibitions, Inc.) to work on the 2009 Federal court case dealing with the recovered RMS Titanic artifacts. I have since had a number of people contact me about such items.

Thank you, Greg C. Brown, M.S., ISA AM
President, Greg C. Brown & Associates
President, WA Lewis & Clark Chapter of the International Society of Appraisers
MN Sub-Chapter Chairman, The Explorers Club (2009-2014)
1-888-815-9430
[email protected]

Hi All,

I have not been on this site for several years. I could never get on with the new website. Greg asked me about the medal rolls and I have responded to him in a private email. I dont believe the Carpathia Medals were Government issue but were probably funded by wealthy survivors. In these circumstances there will be no official medal rolls in the National Archives. Probably the issue would have ben recorded but where such records exist I have no idea.

I'm sure there are members better informed than I who could give Greg, some advice.
 
Greg C. Brown

Greg C. Brown

Member
Ernest, Thank you for both your private reply and your request for assistance for me here! Also, sorry I wrote in your name incorrectly in my post as Ernie!

The medals were indeed a private matter, funded by the first and second class passengers in a charitable effort to assist the poor who were on board and essentially were destitute after loosing everything they ever had in their lives in the sinking, and included funding the medals as a thank you for the crew and those passengers who had an impact on the rescue in important ways. It was chaired by Molly Brown herself, apparently started by her while still onboard the Carpathia after her rescue, and inbound to New York.

One way of another, I will get to the bottom of this if the client chooses to go forward, as I suspect, as they were all awarded at the same time, there is a list some where.

Any help would be gratefully received, thank you Ernest, and to all here. Sincerely, Greg.
 
ihavecoins

ihavecoins

Member
I'd be most grateful if anyone could point me to owners of Carpathia medals who might be interested in selling.

Additionally, if anyone has any past sales data for Carpathia medals, that would be very interesting to see.

Thanks!
There is a gold Carpathia medal available for sale. still interested?
 
ihavecoins

ihavecoins

Member
Hi All,

I have not been on this site for several years. I could never get on with the new website. Greg asked me about the medal rolls and I have responded to him in a private email. I dont believe the Carpathia Medals were Government issue but were probably funded by wealthy survivors. In these circumstances there will be no official medal rolls in the National Archives. Probably the issue would have ben recorded but where such records exist I have no idea.

I'm sure there are members better informed than I who could give Greg, some advice.
I'm working on a family name for a recipient of a gold Carpathia medal. I'm looking for names of people who received gold medals.
The gold medal I have does not have a name engraved. It was confirmed to be the proper gold content, weight and the box is correct to confirm it is not a copy.
[email protected]

Here are my own notes regarding the names of gold medal recipients and a comment on each. This may not be 100% accurate-
There were six gold medals publicly documented. I suspect these 6 were all engraved.
one each for:
1.Capt. Rostron - Left his Medal on the ship when it sunk.
2.Chief Engineer Johnson,
3.Surgeon Frank E. McGee,
4.Ernest. G. F. Brown, R. N. R., purser; ++Engraved/sold by Bourne end auction
5. Chief Steward Evan Henry Hughes, His was engraved.
6. Second Engineer Marshall.
**7. Roth (not sure who) sold for $55,000
**8. Second Officer James Bisset sold for 41,000 -Name on Medal-Bisset later became Commodore of the Cunard line and the author of several books
**9. First officer Horace JOhn Dean - Name on Medal
**10. Thomas William Hankinson (name given by Thorsten) Name on Medal
??? 11 ?? Marconi was given a gold medal by titanic survivors
 
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