Catholic Passengers on Titanic


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chris anthony

Guest
I was just wondering, were there any well known Catholics on Titanic? all i know of are the ones who were buried in Mount Olivet Cemetary, Mrs. Rothschild, and Mr. Navratil. Does anyone know of any others? Any information would be very helpful. Thanks.

Chris
 

John Clifford

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Mar 30, 1997
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Hi Chris.

First off, Mr. Navratil is not buried in Mount Olivet, but in the Jewish Cemetery, Baron De Hirsch.

Margaret Rice was also buried at Mount Olivet: she was traveling to the US, along with her five sons: they boarded at Cobh, and all of them perished. It is their images that are on the Cobh Titanic Memorial (see their story in "Triumph & Tragedy" & "The Irish Aboard the Titanic").

Molly Brown was a Catholic; she attended Mass at Annunciation Parish, in Leadville (I believe that is where she and her husband, JJ, were married). The Browns strictly adhered to the Churh's teachings. Thus, they would not divorce, they were separated, until JJ's death.
 
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Max Phillips

Guest
No. Chris is right. Mr. Navratil was a Catholic, he used the name Hoffman (a jewish name) and he was buried in Baron De Hirsch, because he went under a false name. And secondly Chris wasn't saying that Mr. Navratil was buried in Mt. Olivet, he was mentioning him as another Catholic that he knew of.
 

Brian Ahern

Member
Dec 19, 2002
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We had a thread on this over a year ago (I think I started it, actually) and it mysteriously disappeared. Perhaps a moderator thought we were getting into dangerous territory?

Anyway, Chris, the Baxter family was Catholic; Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon was raised a Catholic owing to an Italian mother but the entire family converted to Anglicanism when he was a teenager (someone else posted this on the other thread, and Randy Bryan Bigham, I believe, posted that Lady Duff Gordon was raised a Catholic owing to an Irish grandmother and he is the expert on her ladyship). The other aristocrat - the Countess of Rothes - was not Catholic but her father converted and willed the family seat of Prinknash Park to a monastary.

Dr. Minahan and Daisy were Catholics but I don't know about Lillian Minahan (the surnames in her family tree tend to be rather WASPY). Thomas McCaffrey was buried in Notre Dames des Neiges Cemetery so he was probably Catholic. On the other thread, someone wrote that Miss Young was buried in a Catholic cemetery while not being a Catholic herself. It was also posted that Thomas Cardeza converted to Catholicism upon his marriage, causing a temporary rift with his mother. We can assume that the Spanish Penascos and the South American passengers (the Carraus, Mr Artagratayvia (sp?)) were Catholic, and French passengers (Omont, Aubart, DeVilliers, Rheims, Chevre, Marie DeMeugot Spencer) were Catholic. Though, of course, the world does have French Protestants. Jacques Futrelle was apparently of Huguenot descent, though contemporary newspaper accounts mentioned that his daugther Virginia went to a school called Notre Dame.

As far as the Irish passengers, Purser McElroy was a Catholic (prominent, though not a passenger). Mr. Flynn, in spite of his Irish name, was NOT a Catholic but Brady was, and I think Brereton and McGough were. I don't remember about Timothy McCarthy. Peter Daly had an Irish name and a French mother and he married a Peruvian, so I assume he was Catholic. The Spedden's nurse and family confidante, Margaret "Muddy Boons" Burns, was a Catholic. According to Dr. Leader's obit, a "Father O'Farrell" officiated at her funeral, but I doubt she was a Catholic.

Annie May Stengel's funeral was a solemn high requiem mass at the Church of Good Counsel in Newark. I'm not sure if that sort of service means Catholic or not, and I don't know what religion her husband was.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Brian A.
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Brian,

Your posts looks as if they are still on-site. In the Message Board under under Searching/Keyword type in Catholic. There are over 100 hits. No 2: Life on Board: Worship on Board the Titanic: About the Church Service contains posts by yourself.
 

John Clifford

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Mar 30, 1997
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Max, I did not say that Mr. Navratil was not a Catholic.
I was not certain if he was a Catholic, and I did not!! claim that he was not a Catholic.

I simply stated that he was not buried at the Mount Olivet Cemetery. I got to visit all three Halifax Cemeteries, in August 1996 & April 2001. I will always remember visiting Michel Navratil's grave at the Baron De Hirsch Cemetery, just as I was quite moved by a statue of Jesus carrying a lamb, at the Mount Olivet Cemetery.
 

Brian Ahern

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Dec 19, 2002
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Thanks Inger and Lester! You were right: that was the thread I was thinking of. I hadn't been able to locate it, for whatever reason, two years ago and I wondered if someone thought I had taken liberties with Mrs. Stengel's character, which was certainly not my intention.
 
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Max Phillips

Guest
Sorry for the misunderstanding John. The service held in the First class Dining Saloon for the first class passengers was not a Catholic mass, yet we see Molly Brown (kathy bates) in the movie Titanic singing in the mass. Would this be considered a mistake in the movie?
 

Brian Ahern

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Dec 19, 2002
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My guess would be any Christians might have hit the service, since it was their only option. With Captain Smith reading, I don't think it was anything too in-depth that would be too troubling to people of other denominations.
 

Sam Jarvis

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Oct 14, 2005
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Dare I mention ecumenical services? Ecumenical meaning in this context belonging to or representing the whole Christian church. While not citing primary sources, as I have none to hand, I have read of many such broadly encompassing services open to all passengers of a particular class in Titanic's era.

Max I would not consider it an "error" as James Cameron's film was a work of fiction rather than documentary. There are those who would take the opposing view of course.
 
Dec 22, 2006
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I realize this thread is over a year old, but I just found it today. I wanted to respond to the issue of Margaret Brown and where she would gone on Sunday morning to worship aboard _Titanic_.

Although there were restrictions about where first, second, and third class passengers could go, these would not have applied to that time when Mass was being said by Father Byles. Margaret Brown would not have, as a Catholic, attended a Protestant (Church of England) service. Although she was first class, she would have been allowed to go to the Mass in the second class lounge.

I hope this helps shed light on the situation.
 
Feb 7, 2005
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Thank you, Father Archer, for your insight!

I see this is your first post. Welcome! I hope you have a wonderful Christmas, and that we see you often around the board in 2007.

Denise
 

Brian Ahern

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Dec 19, 2002
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Lynda, I'm pretty sure that the Evans family parish was Grace Episcopal in Brooklyn Heights. So no, she was not a Catholic.

Father Archer, I thought I'd posted a response to your e-mail but I guess not, but it doesn't seem to be there. I thanked you for your information and asked you what your source was.

Regards,
 
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Lynda Franklin

Guest
Thanks for the info on Edith Evans been trying to research out of mostly curiousity what religious beliefs the passengers were and the crew .
 
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Doni McLerran

Guest
Well, even though apparently this thread hasn't gotten much traffic in the nearly 2 years of its existence, I thought I'd add my 2 cents anyway.

Now, I've always been partial to Father Thomas Byles out of all the Titanic passengers, but to be fair, he was not the only Catholic priest on board. There were also Father Josef Peruschitz from Bavaria, and Father Juozas Montvila from Lithuania. So, there are two more Catholic names for you. Like Father Byles, the other two were in second-class and died in the sinking.

In Montvila's case, he's a pretty big hero in his own country (for more than his Titanic connection), and there is a movement for his canonization.
 
Dec 29, 2006
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Witney
It is surprisingly difficult to ascertain the religious affiliations of individual passengers, particularly if their places of burial are not known. In the case of clergymen, references to "Father", as opposed to "Reverend", are obvious clues, although I have noticed that, for reasons that are not entirely clear, most of the clergymen listed on the second class passenger list available on this site seem to be referred-to as "Fathers"! This may be appropriate in the case of a few (very) "high church" Anglicans, but I doubt if the Reverend Carter, who conducted the Sunday afternoon hymn service, would have been called "Father" by his parishioners.
 

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