Cats on the Titanic


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>>He got very defensive, and denied that he had, in a way which confirmed to all of us that the money had been mailed. No resolution to the story... he declined to discuss it with us again.<<

Which can be construed to mean that he never saw that money again. With a lot of these so-called "psychics" this is a very common and very successful scam.
 

Matt DiTullio

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Not convinced sorry. But we are all entitled to our own beliefs and opinions. I do not need skeptic articles shoved down my throat. I respect your beliefs, please respect mine. ; )
 
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I know it's sort of fashionable, or politically respected, to be nice to those who believe in spooks, spirits, and gods.

But, actually, I don't respect daft religious / psychic ideas where the proof is so miniscule as to be totally bereft. I may not denigrate them publicly (unless challenged), but then I don't accept I should respect them either when asked to for no real reason at all.

Mods -- don't worry. I've no intention of uttering another word on the subject.
 
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>>Not convinced sorry. But we are all entitled to our own beliefs and opinions. I do not need skeptic articles shoved down my throat. I respect your beliefs, please respect mine. ; )<<

1)I did not shove a skeptical link down your throat. I offered it as a rebuttal.

2) You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. However, you are not entitled to your own facts. Fact: Past life regression is absolutely unsupported by and has often falsified by the evidence every single time.

3) Respect is earned. It is not a birthright.
 
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As a complete dis-believer in regression and past lives, I have several times been asked to sit in on a regression session (Try saying that after two sherries!) Whilst I was aware that there was some trickery afoot - not on the part of the chap being regressed, who was and still is a well known name in Titanic circles, I was still somewhat surprised to hear the subject, after having been regressed apparently to early 1912, speaking in perfect German - a language which he claimed he knew scarcely a word of once being brought back to present day.
During the regression, there was no mention of the Titanic - just that he had been waiting in a long queue at some stage and chatting to the people there.

My second experience was less convincing. The subject was regressed to the Zulu Wars where he fell victim to a native spear.His wife also attended the regression and became very upset - too much so for my liking and it was some weeks later that I saw them on television where it transpired they were both professional actors!
 

Bob Godfrey

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A person well-known in Titanic circles speaking perfect German? That's certainly impressive, Geoff, especially as most of them can't even speak perfect English!
grin.gif
 

Jim Kalafus

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>But we are all entitled to our own beliefs and opinions. I do not need skeptic articles shoved down my throat.

Why, then, did you open the link?

Regarding my own regression....fiasco....

I have been hypnotized, repeatedly, and am actually a good "subject" in that department.

However, bad movies notwithstanding, you will not do anything under hypnosis that you would not do, or secretly wish to do, in a waking state.

Subsequently, despite much prompting, nothing happened.

And, the Lusitania/Empress of Ireland wreck fragments in my pocket did not throw off any psychic "disturbance" either.

Now, one would think that in a ROOM full of psychics, at least ONE would have sensed a huge amount of violent death emanating from my watch pocket, but none did.

If you choose to believe in such things, that is your option. But, much like 15 year olds who believe in santa or the tooth fairy, you have to expect a degree of...the opposite of unconditional positive reenforcement... if you voice that belief in public.

I am not a skeptic. "Skeptic" allows that there is a CHANCE of legitimacy. In this case, there isn't. I'm an outright disbeliever. Multiple psychic faires, at least 300 psychics, and not one EVER came close to sensing the disaster items secreted on my person.
 
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re - "Now, one would think that in a ROOM full of psychics, at least ONE would have sensed a huge amount of violent death emanating from my watch pocket, but none did."

Talk about being found wonting! Jesus, that's pretty damning isn't it!
 

Jim Kalafus

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I'd say yes.

Another funny thing I've noticed. My father is Hungarian/English. My mother is of German descent. My father is very Hungarian in apperance, while my mother is very German looking. Mix the genes and, somehow, I ended up looking very Irish.

Virtually every psychic impression reader, when handed my ancestral pocket watch, spins tales of the Auld Country. Detailed enough where even a five year old would think "Ireland" and, probably, half of those who were in a similar situation would say "That's incredible! My family is from originally from Cork!" The thing is, I'm German/Hungarian/English in heritage; the watch was made for me in 1976; both parties responsible for its creation are still living, but ARE 'ancestors' of mine, so I'm not being deceptive when I call it an ancestral piece. I'm sure a GOOD psychic would then say "Ahhh...but the watchmaker? Was HE Irish?"

I still have the first edition NYC newspapers from 9/11/01. From the 5AM press run. Now, you would THINK that the horoscopes for New Yorkers on that particular day would be a giant black X captioned "STAY HOME." But, unless "New challenges on the career front might hamper you today" is an extremely oblique way of saying "Before 9AM you will be trapped in a burning office building," all twelve horoscopes, cast by each of three different psychics, missed by a mile.

Next Psychic Faire, the Morro Castle life preserver is putting in an appearance. The ship's name is nowhere on it. I'm going to act befuddled as to its origin, without outright lying, and see how many "I...see...an....iceberg!" readings ensue. I'll most likely say "It's from a shipwreck my grandparents were involved in when they were young" which, indeed, is true. They drove down to Asbury Park the morning after, just like everyone else, to watch the ship burn itself out. So, they experienced a part of the disaster...they just didn't survive it. But, let the psychics divine that for themselves if they can. "I see cold water. I see...a couple parted. I see...Billy Zane in a greasy looking hairpiece."
 
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Hard to say if you look Irish, Jim. North Europeans tend to look so much like each other where genes have mixed so much - like the Brits and Irish (for 2000 years), Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, Normans (originally Vikings), Germans etc. So many empires, so much time, so much happy, and not so happy, inter-mixing. And the Austro-Hungarians did a fair amount of travelling.

Your Psychic Faires sound much more enterprising than ours. I've only been to one, years ago. Nobody clutched artifacts and divined from them. They only read palms and stuff. Mind you, that wasn't any better.

Someone gave me a Tarot set and instructions as a present ages ago - I can't think why. Anyway, I gamely agreed to do readings for friends, and they were mostly quite impressed. Despite the fact that I had to constantly refer to the book.
"Let's see now. The Hanged Man. Well not really, obviously. Says here it can refer to the ending of a set of circumstances. Does that sound right?"
"YES!!!"

I gave up before they did.
 
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No, Bob. I will not tell your fortune the next time we meet. What with Gordon Brown and interest rates at 0.5%, there is no fortune to tell.
 

Jim Kalafus

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I tell you what. Since you know what I look like, if this respiratory infection I cannot shake finishes me off, I will emulate the classic True Psychic book Ghost of Flight 401, and appear thru the pyrex viewing door of your oven as a solid, 3 dimensional, head, gazing out from the browning rack. Then we'll all know the truth about such things and, hey, I'll even apologize to true believers from inside the oven.
 

Jim Kalafus

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>You cannot possibly appear through my Pyrex oven door as it desperately needs cleaning...

Oh, I can... I can. Not only can ghosts appear thru oven doors, they can actually create Pyrex windows as well! A quick spray-down with EZ-Off, which I will supply myself pre-appearance, and we're good to go.

I've talked about this 'fore, but it is worth repeating.

After the December 1972 Miami L-1011 crash

http://eastern401.googlepages.com/home

beginning in the summer of 1973, and running thru 1974, there were rampant stories that the dead flight engineer from 401 was appearing as a 3-dimensional face, thru the Pyrex oven windows on at least three other Eastern Airlines L-1011s.

Remember how Lockheed almost tanked when Rolls-Royce, supplier of L-1011 engines failed; the plane almost didn't happen, and was delayed by a year until the British Govt took over that branch of Rolls-Royce?

Well, somehow the engine shortage translated into an oven door shortage, and soon THE TRUTH WAS KNOWN. The oven doors from the crashed plane had been recycled into oven-doorless new L-1011s, and so happened the haunting.

I first became aware of the story as early as 1974, in a book by the title of They Dared the Devils Triangle. Scared the bejesus out of me.

Then came the 1977/78 bestseller, Ghost of Flight 401, source of many a nightmare in my 10/11 year old self.

Yeah...scared of a haunted oven door. Pretty pathetic, but, hey, I was a minor....

ANYWAY, adulthood arrived with a thud ca 1980. I was given a stack o' press photos of the Everglades crash to look at. "Wow! Here's the actual galley!" followed, a second later, by "Wait a minute!"

The oven doors were compressed downward into v shapes, and...had no Pyrex windows. Unsalvageable, and no windows.....

Later, looking at promo photos of L-1011 galleys, 1972-1985, showed me that no matter which airline, or vintage plane, ALL L-1011 galleys had solid doored ovens.

Tim, in 20 years of flying, has never seen ANY plane with a Pyrex-doored oven.

SO....

The non-believer might say that the rumors, with the name of a real person attached to them, were at best tasteless and at worst, cruel. And might say that the book was the same-times-ten, since the author HAD to have seen the galley crash photo, and SHOULD have looked at the various Lockheed and Eastern galley promo shots.

The believer might say that The Undead have GREAT POWERS, among them the ability to create an oven door window where none exists.

Sad thing is, a substantial number of me-generationers half-remember the book and are familiar with the haunted plane story. And people still believe in something paranormal that a quick look thru any one of several illustrated histories can easily debunk. There was no oven door shortage. The 401 galley was compacted downward. The haunted plane made its debut in 3/1973, which means that the Vee-d oven debris, which was removed from the Everglades around January 5, 1973, HAD to have been given priority restoration, and at lightning speed, to be aboard that plane in time for service testing, delivery, and maiden voyage. And, even if THAT is true, the doors had no window in them...

So, if this infernal infection finishes me off, not only will I infest your ovens, but I will also clean them for you, for added otherworldly effect.

Just dont cook anything with bell peppers... the one food item with which I truly cannot be in the same room.
 

Bob Godfrey

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I've checked out my oven, Jim, and there is indeed something rather gruesome in there. Does your head look uncannily like a pizza? Or is that just a rumour?
 
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This is appalling news, Jim, save for the fact that your extant persona could clean my oven for me. Well, someone has to.

The rigmarole of what you have just related leaves me reeling.
 

Jim Kalafus

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>I've checked out my oven, Jim, and there is indeed something rather gruesome in there. Does your head look uncannily like a pizza?

That is, indeed, a pizza peering out at you. I am currently still alive, but saddled with an infection which leaves me hacking and wheezing as if I am tubercular, and with the stamina of an 80 year old. In truth, it's rather depressing... everyone has it.

>The rigmarole of what you have just related leaves me reeling.

For further depressing reading:

http://www.near-death.com/ghosts.html

True believers.

Bob Loft, the captain who died, ALSO haunted the same plane. (Pause to groan. TWO ghosts) He was reported to reappear as kind of an in-flight zombie, sitting in first class and staring blindly ahead. HIS family sued the author of Ghost of Flight 401. They lost, because the manner of Captain Loft's death made him a celebrity and, therefore, ordinary invasion of privacy laws applied neither to him nor his kin. Had he died in a car accident en route to the airport, perhaps they WOULD have.

Poor First Officer Stockstill. HE never got to haunt anything.
 

Jim Kalafus

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An interesting one regarding Flight 401, which is more CREDIBLE as a ghost story but still, I fear, has a terrestrial explanation.

All but two of the stewardesses, as they were then called, survived. A few of the stewardesses, and passengers, saw Stephanie Stanich, a pretty, very young, blonde stewardess, walking around at the crash site. She seemed dazed. When she appeared on the missing list, several of those hospitalised, who had no contact with one another, immediately reported that she had been seen alive the night before, and was capable of walking.

This is all confirmable. It made the papers immediately: "State Police Search Everglades For Missing Stewardess," and the reports that she was alive, but in a daze, were taken very seriously.

She was found a few days after the crash. She was dead, killed very quickly by multiple injuries. She was still strapped in her seat, which had been thrown so far from the debris field that the initial searches missed it.

The classic "she didn't know she was dead" ghost story? Something genuinely eerie overlooked in the attention given to a stupid haunted oven story?

No.

Check out the two snapshots on the first 401 link I posted.

Notice something?

The brunettes favor one another. And so do the blondes. Eastern had a definite corporate look, as far as stewardesses went.

The plane hit the swamp at full speed. The 77 initial survivors, and the 73 who lived beyond 1/15/73 had been subjected to "unsurvivable" crash forces, but survived. They were almost all injured. Virtually everyone who "saw" Stephanie at the crash site was injured, some quite severely. It was surprisingly chilly for Miami, and in addition to being injured they were all teeth-chatteringly cold.

Virtually everyone was soaking wet, and covered with mud, jet fuel, and blood. The only light on scene was the reflecting glow of lights from Miami, which made it bright enough to see things close up.

Under those conditions, ANY blonde stewardess walking past you at a distance of several feet would have looked like any other blonde stewardess. In fact, in a large number of cases, deacceleration and the debris shower tore off people's clothing, and so "Stephanie" could have been any young, fair haired, woman who survived and remained ambulatory. And as for the "daze" people reported... if the woman's name wasn't Stephanie, then someone calling "Hey! Stephanie" would have had no impact on her. She didn't listen, and kept walking, because it wasn't her name.

When I was a kid, I thought it was a neat story.

Ah, but look at the 401 crew pictures again. In one of them, two stewardesses are the butt of pranks. And they were the two who would be killed six hours later...

...yeah. THAT ended up in psychic anthologies, too.

Here's another.

Sadie Messina, and her sons, while waiting at Miami International for their husband/father who was aboard Flight 401, all later claimed to have heard the family "code whistle" (which Rosario Messina would make upon arriving home from work) sound from behind them, around 11:40 PM (the plane crashed at 11:42) in the direction of the gate at which EAL 401 would have arrived. Mr. Messina died in the crash. The story is interesting but, alas, was not made public until AFTER the other ghost stories started flying, which diminishes its worth as evidence.

One wonders:

How distinct was the whistle? Was it SO unique a trill that there could me no mistaking anything else for it, or was it a simple two-or-three note sound? Did they ALL immediately hear it, or was it a case of one person saying "Wow, that sounded like dad's whistle!" and the others later remembering him or her saying it, but not remembering the noise itself, never having heard it? Did they immediately write this weird event down, or did it get weirder in memory between 1972 and 1976/77 when it was finally committed to paper?

In this case I think SOMETHING did occur. But, in a crowded terminal, at 11:30-11:45 in the evening, on Orange Bowl AND New Years Eve weekend, with scores of crowded planes arriving and disgorging boisterous, excited, passengers, no doubt there was a LOT of ambient noise, and probably more than a few "Hey! Over HERE!" type of whistles. One of which probably happened close to 11:42, the time that the plane crashed and the time that the family recalled hearing the familar whistle.

And, even if one wants to go the supernatural route, a father somehow signalling to his family at the presumed moment of his death seems more...plausible and comforting... than the idea of a loved one spending eternity haunting the inside of an oven.
 

Jim Kalafus

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>>Talk about being found wonting! Jesus, that's pretty damning isn't it!<<

If you want to sweeten the pot, show me how many of these "psychics" predicted it when they were investigated, arrested, tried, and convicted of a number of charges ranging from fraud to extortion and racketeering.

It helps to know that the number of psychics who pulled that off is "Zero."

>>I'm sure a GOOD psychic would then say "Ahhh...but the watchmaker? Was HE Irish?" <<

But a real psychic wouldn't ask and wouldn't need to. S/he would know.

The ones who ask are using an old mentalists trick known as cold reading. For an explaination of how this works, go to http://www.skepdic.com/coldread.html

Be sure to follow the links to the related articles.
 
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