Charles Eugene Williams

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George Jacub

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In other words, Lowe testified that he instructed Williams to get into the lifeboat before it was launched to help the crew to row.
So much to address. Let's start.

Let's look closely at Lowe's testimony before the Senate Inquiry.

Lowe testified he was in charge of loading No. 14.

He wasn't.

Senator SMITH.

Who had charge of the loading of lifeboat No. 14?

Mr. LOWE.

I had.


From Seaman Joseph Scarrott's appearance before the British Inquiry:

383. - Directly I got to my boat I jumped in, saw the plug in, and saw my dropping ladder was ready to be worked at a moment's notice; and then Mr. Wilde, the Chief Officer, came along and said, "All right; take the women and children," and we started taking the women and children. There would be 20 women got into the boat, I should say, when some men tried to rush the boats, foreigners they were, because they could not understand the order which I gave them, and I had to use a bit of persuasion. The only thing I could use was the boat's tiller.

385. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Did the Fifth Officer assist you in this persuasion?


- He was not there then.

387. Did you succeed in getting all the women and children that were about into your boat?

- Yes, when Mr. Lowe came and took charge he asked me how many were in the boat; I told him as far as I could count there were 54 women and four children,...

393. Was Mr. Lowe, the Fifth Officer, also in the boat?


- We were practically full up. I was taking the women in when Mr. Lowe came.

Turkish Bath Attendant Frank Morris testified to the same point at the British Inquiry:

5312. Was there an Officer in charge of No. 14?

- Well, there was in the last part, when the boat was pretty well full, Officer Lowe came along.


So Lowe exaggerated his role in loading No.14. Perhaps being hailed a hero inflated his ego.

Senator SMITH.

And how many people did you put into it?

Mr. LOWE.

Fifty-eight.

Senator SMITH.

How many women; do you know?

Mr. LOWE.

They were all women and children, bar one passenger, who was an Italian, and he sneaked in, and he was dressed like a woman. He had a shawl over his head, and everything else; and I only found out at the last moment.

And there was another passenger that I took for rowing.


Let's pause here to look at more evidence.

Scarrott, Brtitish Inquiry

400. How many were rowing?
- Four.

401. Do you know who they were - were they seamen?
- I can only account for two as regards their rating. I was pulling the after-oar on the port side of the boat, and on my left was a fireman; but as regards the other two that were further forward on the boat, I cannot say what they were as regards their rating.

403. Am I right in supposing that in your boat, No. 14, there were yourself, two firemen, three or four stewards, and Lowe?
- There is a correction there, my Lord. There was one man in that boat that we had been under the impression - when I say "we," I mean the watch of sailors - that he was a sailorman. That man was not a sailor at all, though acting in the capacity of sailor. That was another man that was in the boat.

404. What was he?
- A window-cleaner; he was supposed to be in the ship as a window-cleaner.


Four men rowed. Scarrott, a fireman (one of two in the boat, probably Thomas Thelfall because he was in the boat when it returned to search for survivors), and two others.

Steward George Crowe testified in America: "I assisted in handing the women and children into the boat, and was asked if I could take an oar, and I said "Yes." and was told to man the boat." He, too, was in No.14 when it went back for survivors, indicating he was telling the truth about being a rower.

Steward Alfred Pugh wrote a letter to Walter Lord in 1955 saying: "Mr. Webb (sic, Lowe) then detailed the crew to man the boat and asked me if I could manage the oars (being large and me very small) I said yes, as I had already done so at Boat Drill before leaving Southampton. Right he said jump in, and he followed taking charge."

That's your four rowers. No Charles Williams. (See, Seumas, this is what's called 'research'.)

But Lowe said... And there was another passenger that I took for rowing.

But things don't look as black and white if you read the rest of Lowe's appearance. Suddenly, he's acting rather evasive.

Senator SMITH.

Who was that?

Mr. LOWE.

That was a chap by the name of C. Williams.

Senator SMITH.

Where did he live?

Mr. LOWE.

I do not know where he lived.


NB. He doesn't know where Williams lives.

Senator SMITH.

Was he one of the men whose names you have on that paper?

Mr. LOWE.

I have his name; that is, his home address, but not his New York address.

Senator SMITH.

I would like his home address.

Mr. LOWE.

I can give you that. Will you have it now?

Senator SMITH.

Yes; also the name of any other man or woman in the boat that you know, and their address.

Mr. LOWE. (referring to book)

"C. Williams, racket champion of the world," he has here, "No. 2 Drury Road, Harrow-on-the-Hill, Middlesex, England."


"Referring to book". What book? Obviously a book with Charles Williams' address in it, an address that Lowe doesn't know until he reads it from the book.

Senator SMITH.

Give all the others?

Mr. LOWE.

You want them in my own boat, sir?

Senator SMITH.

Yes; you said you had the names of all in the boat.

Mr. LOWE.

You see, I was in charge of five boats.


A simple question met with an evasive answer. Who was in your boat? Well, I was in charge of a lot of boats.

Senator SMITH.

But this in of the boat you were in yourself, No. 14?

Mr. LOWE.

Yes. I will give them to you.

Senator SMITH.

This is the one you loaded?

Mr. LOWE.

You want those in the boat from the davits, not what I picked up?


Why is he still ducking the question? It's a simple question. Who was in your boat when you left the Titanic ?

Mr. LOWE.

The next were Mrs. A.T. Compton, and Miss S.H. Compton, Laurel House, Lakewood, N. J.

Senator SMITH.

Go ahead a little faster, if you can.

Mr. LOWE.

That is all.

Senator SMITH.

Those are the only names you took down?

Mr. LOWE.

Out of my own particular boat.


What's this all about? He "took down" three names? In a book? What book? Are these the only three people he personally put into No. 14? Or is there another reason why he has their names?

Senator SMITH.
I thought you had a card there that they had signed with their autographs.

Mr. LOWE.
Who?


Still evading.

Senator SMITH.
These passengers who were in your own boat, No. 14.

Mr. LOWE.
No, sir; I am no autograph hunter.

Senator SMITH.
I understand; but I thought you told me you had a card of that kind.

Mr. LOWE.
No, sir.


Who? This is the third time he feigns ignorance to what the question is. Then he says he didn't collect the signatures in "the book" or a card of some kind. Where's this questioning coming from? Obviously from the pre-interview with Lowe, which he's now disavowing.

The Senator abandons that line of questioning.

Senator SMITH.
You say there were how many people in your boat?

Mr. LOWE.
Fifty-eight, sir


Adding," So I transferred all my passengers - somewhere about 53 passengers - from my boat, and I equally distributed them between my other four boats."

So 53 of the 58 people in lifeboat No. 14 were transferred to other boats, presumably including the window washer and steward who didn't row, leaving five people. One was Lowe. That leaves four. We've named the four rowers. Where is Charles Williams?
 
G

George Jacub

Member
I am sorry but I don't buy that at all. I have great respect for contributors of On A Sea Of Glass and believe that they went further than anyone else to gather as much information as possible and presented it very well. The did not invent their own events at any stage.

I don't believe that Charles Williams told any reporter that he jumped into the sea and was pulled into a boat; if anyone was doing any inventing, it would have been those reporters themselves who embellished, misinterpreted, exaggerated and lied outright to print what they thought their readers would buy.

By the way, Lowe was the Fifth Officer of the Titanic. :)
LEAPS FROM THE SHIP

Home Titanic Survivors Charles Eugene Williams LEAPS FROM THE SHIP

Chicago Daily Journal

Friday 19th April 1912

Charles Williams, the racquet coach at Harrow, England, who is the professional champion of the world , was coming to New York to defend his title, said he was in the smoking room when the boat struck. He rushed out, saw the iceberg, which seemed to loom above the deck over 100 feet. It broke up amidships and floated away. He jumped from the boat deck on the starboard side as far away from the steamer as possible. He was nine hours in the small boat, standing in water to his knees. He said the sailors conducted themselves admirably.

Chicago Daily Journal, Friday, April 19, 1912, p. 2, c. 7

Note that this story ran the day after the Carpathia arrived in New York, meaning Williams was interviewed the day the ship docked.

The (New York) Sun., April 20, 1912, Page 4
English Survivor Says Skipper Saved A Baby Before Dying
Charles Williams, coach of the Racquet Club of the Harrow School of England, who was one of those rescued when the Titanic sank, was a guest last night at the home of George E. Standing, the racquet player, at 84 Waller avenue, White Plains. Mr. Standing to-day told how Mr. Williams was rescued by one of the boat crews.
He said Williams remained on board the Titanic as long as possible and then went overboard with a life belt around him. He is a good swimmer and believed that he would be able to swim about until he could be picked up. He remained in the icy water for over two hours before he was hauled aboard one of the boats. While in this boat and waiting to be picked up by the Carpathia Williams says he witnessed the death of Capt. Smith of the Titanic.
When he first saw the Captain the latter was swimming about in the icy water with a life belt about him and clutching an infant in his arms. The small boat went to his aid and the captain handed the child to those in the lifeboat but he refused to get into the boat himself. He asked what had become of First Officer Murdock and when told that he had blown out his brains with a revolver, Capt. Smith pushed himself away from the lifeboat and loosening the life belt, sank out of sight. The crew of the lifeboat remained close for some time, but Capt. Smith did not come to the surface again.
Later on the boat was picked up by the Carpathia.

Two days. Two newspaper interviews. The conspiracy thickens.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
Anyone curious is invited to contact me privately and I will supply the details.
I can tell you here and now that I am DEFINITELY NOT CURIOUS.

And no matter which newspaper you quote, I do not believe them. I have read enough about media of the day and the levels to which they stooped to get a story.
 
Seumas

Seumas

Member
I can tell you here and now that I am DEFINITELY NOT CURIOUS.

And no matter which newspaper you quote, I do not believe them. I have read enough about media of the day and the levels to which they stooped to get a story.
Quite right Arun.

To rely almost entirely upon the newspapers of 1912 to find out what happened is a mugs game.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
Charles Williams, the racquet coach at Harrow, England, who is the professional champion of the world , was coming to New York to defend his title, said he was in the smoking room when the boat struck. He rushed out, saw the iceberg, which seemed to loom above the deck over 100 feet. It broke up amidships and floated away. He jumped from the boat deck on the starboard side as far away from the steamer as possible. He was nine hours in the small boat, standing in water to his knees. He said the sailors conducted themselves admirably.
This sounds like Williams jumped into the sea soon after seeing the iceberg that "loomed over 100 feet from the deck and broke amidships before floating away". But somehow he managed to find himself in a waterlogged lifeboat - the only one that was so 'up to the knees' was Collapsible A. There was a Williams on it all right - Richard Norris Williams but in their rush to publish something, Chicago Daily Journal probably thought not many people would notice the difference, especially the difference between a tennis player and a racquets player. Looks like some haven't, to this day.
He said Williams remained on board the Titanic as long as possible and then went overboard with a life belt around him. He is a good swimmer and believed that he would be able to swim about until he could be picked up. He remained in the icy water for over two hours before he was hauled aboard one of the boats. While in this boat and waiting to be picked up by the Carpathia Williams says he witnessed the death of Capt. Smith of the Titanic.
First of all, no one could have survived in the icy water for 'over two hours'. Of course, that did not stop some from claiming that they did, or newspapers deciding that it would look more sensational if they tweaked a survivor's statement a bit. Also, all those who were pulled on board the waterlogged lifeboat Collapsible A (Rhoda Abbott, Peter Daly etc) were rescued in the first few minutes after the Titanic sank; no one 2 hours later.
When he first saw the Captain the latter was swimming about in the icy water with a life belt about him and clutching an infant in his arms. The small boat went to his aid and the captain handed the child to those in the lifeboat but he refused to get into the boat himself. He asked what had become of First Officer Murdock and when told that he had blown out his brains with a revolver, Capt. Smith pushed himself away from the lifeboat and loosening the life belt, sank out of sight. The crew of the lifeboat remained close for some time, but Capt. Smith did not come to the surface again.
The above sounds like something out of a Woody Allen satire. Captain Smith handing over the baby, being told that Murdoch had "blown his brains out" and upon hearing that Smith loosening his life vest and sinking out of sight. :D :D :D :D :D

All 3 quotes are ridiculously nonsensical apart from being completely improbable. I am certain that poor Charles Eugene Williams had no part in any of it.
 
Steven Christian

Steven Christian

Member
This sounds like Williams jumped into the sea soon after seeing the iceberg that "loomed over 100 feet from the deck and broke amidships before floating away". But somehow he managed to find himself in a waterlogged lifeboat - the only one that was so 'up to the knees' was Collapsible A. There was a Williams on it all right - Richard Norris Williams but in their rush to publish something, Chicago Daily Journal probably thought not many people would notice the difference, especially the difference between a tennis player and a racquets player. Looks like some haven't, to this day.

First of all, no one could have survived in the icy water for 'over two hours'. Of course, that did not stop some from claiming that they did, or newspapers deciding that it would look more sensational if they tweaked a survivor's statement a bit. Also, all those who were pulled on board the waterlogged lifeboat Collapsible A (Rhoda Abbott, Peter Daly etc) were rescued in the first few minutes after the Titanic sank; no one 2 hours later.

The above sounds like something out of a Woody Allen satire. Captain Smith handing over the baby, being told that Murdoch had "blown his brains out" and upon hearing that Smith loosening his life vest and sinking out of sight. :D :D :D :D :D


All 3 quotes are ridiculously nonsensical apart from being completely improbable. I am certain that poor Charles Eugene Williams had no part in any of it.
Yes many versions of the saving the baby story invented by the press. But I hadn't heard of the Murdoch part until now.
 
I

Ioannis Georgiou

Member
Let's pause here to look at more evidence.

Scarrott, Brtitish Inquiry

400. How many were rowing?
- Four.

401. Do you know who they were - were they seamen?
- I can only account for two as regards their rating. I was pulling the after-oar on the port side of the boat, and on my left was a fireman; but as regards the other two that were further forward on the boat, I cannot say what they were as regards their rating.

403. Am I right in supposing that in your boat, No. 14, there were yourself, two firemen, three or four stewards, and Lowe?
- There is a correction there, my Lord. There was one man in that boat that we had been under the impression - when I say "we," I mean the watch of sailors - that he was a sailorman. That man was not a sailor at all, though acting in the capacity of sailor. That was another man that was in the boat.

404. What was he?
- A window-cleaner; he was supposed to be in the ship as a window-cleaner.


Four men rowed. Scarrott, a fireman (one of two in the boat, probably Thomas Thelfall because he was in the boat when it returned to search for survivors), and two others.

Steward George Crowe testified in America: "I assisted in handing the women and children into the boat, and was asked if I could take an oar, and I said "Yes." and was told to man the boat." He, too, was in No.14 when it went back for survivors, indicating he was telling the truth about being a rower.

Steward Alfred Pugh wrote a letter to Walter Lord in 1955 saying: "Mr. Webb (sic, Lowe) then detailed the crew to man the boat and asked me if I could manage the oars (being large and me very small) I said yes, as I had already done so at Boat Drill before leaving Southampton. Right he said jump in, and he followed taking charge."

That's your four rowers. No Charles Williams. (See, Seumas, this is what's called 'research'.)

Adding," So I transferred all my passengers - somewhere about 53 passengers - from my boat, and I equally distributed them between my other four boats."

So 53 of the 58 people in lifeboat No. 14 were transferred to other boats, presumably including the window washer and steward who didn't row, leaving five people. One was Lowe. That leaves four. We've named the four rowers. Where is Charles Williams?

No. 14 had about 9 people (including 5th Officer Lowe) when it returned to the wreckage to search for survivors. Your 4 rowers does not proof nothing only bad research.
 
Seumas

Seumas

Member
No. 14 had about 9 people (including 5th Officer Lowe) when it returned to the wreckage to search for survivors. Your 4 rowers does not proof nothing only bad research.
Indeed.

On Mr Jacub's dreadful blog he claims that over twenty (yes, over twenty) people were shot dead on the Titanic and that Lowe basically executed someone at Boat No. 14.

It is up there with the late Robin Gardiner's stuff it is that bad.
 
G

George Jacub

Member
But somehow he managed to find himself in a waterlogged lifeboat - the only one that was so 'up to the knees' was Collapsible A.

After Charles Williams boarded the Carpathia, doctors saw that his legs were purple and they recommended amputation. If he was in a lifeboat from the deck of the Titanic until he reached the rescue ship, how did he freeze his legs so badly? Nobody else in No. 14 suffered frozen legs.

First of all, no one could have survived in the icy water for 'over two hours'.

That would be news to the men around Collapsible B. Many clung to the side of the overturned boat waiting for a chance to climb on when someone else died and pushed off Self preservation is a powerful force and people throughout the ages have done the "impossible" to live.

The above sounds like something out of a Woody Allen satire.


Capt. Smith's effort to save a baby was seen by Charles Williams and confirmed by two other witnesses---fireman James McGann and stoker Harry Senior. That's two more than saw Charles Williams getting into Lifeboat No. 14 from the Titanic.
 
G

George Jacub

Member
Indeed.

On Mr Jacub's dreadful blog he claims that over twenty (yes, over twenty) people were shot dead on the Titanic and that Lowe basically executed someone at Boat No. 14.

It is up there with the late Robin Gardiner's stuff it is that bad.
The least you could have done is give the name of my blog. It's Titanic's Secrets Unfold. You can find the shootings stories at
The Shootings on the Titanic. The Definitive Story

More than 50 survivors were eyewitnesses to the shootings. Where have you ever seen that fact before?

I cross-referenced the survivors with lifeboats with accounts of shooting. That, Seumas, is research.

Easily half a dozen witnesses saw Murdoch shoot a man in the jaw. Berta Nilsson fiance was shot and killed as he sat beside her. She told of it in letters to her family. But it wasn't until the year 2000 that her living relatives found out about the letters and revealed the information. Read about it here: A Titanic secret

The invaluable book 'The Dream and Then the Nightmare, The Syrians who boarded the Titanic', by Leila Salloum Elias contains numerous accounts of men shot to death on the ship. These accounts were related to family members, but until the author Elias uncovered these stories they were unknown in the English speaking world. This book is a must-have for Titanic researchers.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
I can see that this thread is disintegrating into the realms of the lunatic fringe.
After Charles Williams boarded the Carpathia, doctors saw that his legs were purple and they recommended amputation.
And actually placed him on the operating table before someone realized that he was wearing purple socks to keep his legs warm!
If he was in a lifeboat from the deck of the Titanic until he reached the rescue ship, how did he freeze his legs so badly?
That happened on the Carpathia. They ran out of space to accommodate survivors and Charles Williams found himself placed in the freezer room next to the galley. There was so little room that his legs stuck out into the freezer compartment.
More than 50 survivors were eyewitnesses to the shootings.
Some of whom were shot themselves, perhaps? They would even had the bullets to show for it.
That, Seumas, is research.
THAT, Mr Jacub is bullcrap.
Easily half a dozen witnesses saw Murdoch shoot a man in the jaw.
And saved him a dentist's bill?
 
Steven Christian

Steven Christian

Member
The least you could have done is give the name of my blog. It's Titanic's Secrets Unfold. You can find the shootings stories at
The Shootings on the Titanic. The Definitive Story

More than 50 survivors were eyewitnesses to the shootings. Where have you ever seen that fact before?

I cross-referenced the survivors with lifeboats with accounts of shooting. That, Seumas, is research.

Easily half a dozen witnesses saw Murdoch shoot a man in the jaw. Berta Nilsson fiance was shot and killed as he sat beside her. She told of it in letters to her family. But it wasn't until the year 2000 that her living relatives found out about the letters and revealed the information. Read about it here: A Titanic secret

The invaluable book 'The Dream and Then the Nightmare, The Syrians who boarded the Titanic', by Leila Salloum Elias contains numerous accounts of men shot to death on the ship. These accounts were related to family members, but until the author Elias uncovered these stories they were unknown in the English speaking world. This book is a must-have for Titanic researchers.
I read the links. I found it interesting. But I had looked into this years back and the conclusion I came to at that time and still believe today is that warning shots were fired at one point. But that was it. And I have stated that I thought J. Cameron made a mistake putting that Murdoch scene in his movie. Not enough iron clad proof to portray him in that manner. If that much lead was flying around there would have been hundreds of witnesses. A lot of those quotes from people sound like a script writer or dishonest reporter made them up. Especially some of the quotes attributed to Captain Smith. I've been involved in a few life and death situations. I've never heard people talk like that. Never heard any of those grand noble statements. No time to make speeches. It was always more like "lets get the F*^# out of here". But I enjoyed reading all the examples you gave and can tell you spent a lot time tracking them down. So thanks for that even though I have a different conclusion. Cheers.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
I have stated that I thought J. Cameron made a mistake putting that Murdoch scene in his movie. Not enough iron clad proof to portray him in that manner.
Absolutely. While I am the first to admit that a lot of "events during the sinking" of the Titanic are based on collation of one or more survivor witness accounts combined with educated reconstruction, I personally have researched into the alleged 'Officer Shooting Incident' from one angle - Titanic survivor scullion John Collins. That has been discussed in some detail elsewhere but suffice to say that Collins knew Murdoch by sight (NOT personally) and always maintained (according to his daughter Mary McKee among others) that the First Officer was knocked overboard with several others when the 'wave' caused by the ships sudden downward lurch washed over those around Collapsible A. Collins himself had a child in his arms (probably one of Alma Palsson's children) but it was torn out of his grasp. Collins himself went briefly under but soon surfaced and managed to reach the overturned Collapsible B to be hauled on board.

While there might have been a shooting incident on board, the statements by various survivors are highly variable; while some sound plausible, others seem highly unlikely. There is no specific reason to point the finger at Murdoch other than some people's conjecture that he must have felt 'guilty' for not being able to avoid collision etc. But as I said before, there are statements by Collins and others that suggest strongly that Murdoch was working (presumably with Moody and perhaps McElroy) on trying to get Collapsible A into the water when they were all overcome by the flooding.
 
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