Chief Baker Joughin - superman

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Ryan Matthew DePesa

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This has always puzzled me but I never thought to post it.
During the final moments (before the ship breaks in two) Chief Baker Joughin climbs over the railing THEN the ship splits. How could anybody hold on to the ship after freefalling over 200 feet with no floor to speak of (besides the edge of deck that his toes were likely resting on). To add to that, the man was Drunk out of his mind!
I'm going to just assume this was something James Cameron overlooked, or perhaps realized and just decided to leave it.
ANY THOUGHTS?
 
May 3, 2005
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James Cameron had Rose and Jack sharing the rail with Joughin, so I would suppose he figured if Rose and Jack survived the descent, so could the Chief Baker.
Also, one opinion expressed is that Joughin had consumed so much alcohol that it acted as anti-freeze and he had no ill effects from being in the freezing cold water for hours. However, the medical opinion I've heard is that alcohol has just the opposite effect in that it lowers your resistance to the cold. On the other hand, maybe Joughin had imbibed so much that he was truly "feeling no pain ".
 

Dave Gittins

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Mar 16, 2000
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Joughin's drunkenness is discussed elsewhere. It suffices to say that he was not as drunk as is depicted in movies, notably in ANTR. He had only two small drinks of something pretty strong, perhaps whisky or a strong liqueur.

By his own account, he simply rode the stern down, having had the wit to get outside the railing. he kept his head better then many who were stone sober. His testimony is in the British inquiry. His tale grew in the telling and was made much of by Walter Lord.

For no particular reason---

"Ho, ho, yes, yes, it's all very well,
You may drunk I am think, but I tell you I'm not.
I'm sound as a fiddle and fit as a bell
And stable quite ill to see what's what.
I underdostand you surprise a got
When I headed my smear with gooseberry jam
And I've swallowed, I grant, a beer of lot,
But I'm not so think as you drunk I am!"
 

Jason D. Tiller

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As Dave said, Charles Joughin was not drunk and it's a myth that should have been dispelled a long time ago. Here is Joughin's testimony that Dave is referring to:

quote:

6246. You simply stood back to assist the women and children to get in? - We stood back till the Officers should give us the word, and we never got it, so that we never jumped for the boat.

6247. When you found your boat had gone you said you went down below. What did you do when you went down below? - I went to my room for a drink.

6248. Drink of what? - Spirits.

The Commissioner: Does it very much matter what it was?

Mr. Cotter: Yes, my Lord, this is very important, because I am going to prove, or rather my suggestion is, that he then saved his life. I think his getting a drink had a lot to do with saving his life.

The Commissioner: He told you he had one glass of liqueur.

6249. (Mr. Cotter.) Yes. (To the Witness.) What kind of a glass was it? - It was a tumbler half-full.

6250. A tumbler half-full of liqueur? - Yes.

As far as being on the stern railing when she went down, he had this to say:

quote:

6060. Can you tell us what happened to you? - Yes, I eventually got on to the starboard side of the poop.

6061. (The Commissioner.) Will you point out to me where you got to? - This is where I eventually got to. (Showing on the model.)

6062. You got on to the poop, did you? - Along here (Showing.)

6063. (The Solicitor-General.) What you said, I think, was that you got to the starboard side of the poop? - Yes, on the side of the ship.

6064. On the side of the ship? - Yes.

6065. Is that on the bulwark itself? - I do not know what you call it, Sir. It is the side.

6066. (The Commissioner.) "I got on the side of the ship by the poop"? - Yes.

6068. You got hold of the rail. Let Mr. Wilding turn the model up till you say how far you think it had gone. (Mr. Wilding turned the model.)? - I should say about that, but then the forward part is sloping. (Showing on model.)

6069. The forward part is down by the head? - Yes.

6070. Did you find anybody else holding that rail there on, the poop? - No.

6071. You were the only one? - I did not see anybody else.

6072. Were you holding the rail so that you were inside the ship, or were you holding the rail so that you were on the outside of the ship? - On the outside.

6073. So that the rail was between you and the deck? - Yes.

For the rest of his testimony, click HERE
 
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Ryan Matthew DePesa

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I think I need to reword my original statement.
UMMMMMM.... OK
chief baker Joughin is holding on to the OUTER side of the railing (unlike rose and jack who are still on the inside at this point) when the ship splits and plummets back to the surface. My comment is simply that I seriously doubt he could have held on upon impact (since he's basically standing on nothing). Cameron should have had Joughin climb over the railing AFTER the split as jack and Rose do. That would be more convincing.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>My comment is simply that I seriously doubt he could have held on upon impact <<

Get enough of a death grip on the railings and it might be plausible. For whatever it's worth, I strongly doubt the real breakup was quite as dramatic as portrayed in the movie, but more of a gradual process where the midsection disintigrated and/or caved in on itself with the stern settling back. The Discovery Channal's "Titanic, Answers From The Abyss" has a CGI reproduction of what it probably looked like that may well be very close to the reality.
 
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Jeffrey Beaudry

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I've always figured that the actual breakup took place at maybe 15-25 degrees. Otherwise, wouldn't Joughin remember the 150 foot fall of the ship?
 

Paul Lee

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Aug 11, 2003
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>... perhaps not. He was very intoxicated.

Have you read the replies to your first post?
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>...perhaps not. He was very intoxicated.<<

Says who based on what primary source? Joughin himself denied having anything more then a couple of drinks and in sworn testimony at that. As the others have said, you would be wise to read the posts made in this thread on the subject.
 
May 3, 2005
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If I may interject a thought from the viewpoint of "we amateurs", we are probably inclined to view the events as true in these cases since "so much research went into the details and facts in the movie, this must be true" while in fact it might have been a case in point that was missed by the producers or just a case of "literary license for the sake of the plot." I'm sure the more serious persons on this website have gone into much more research to prove their point.

Just an example of this in another movie. In "The Grapes of Wrath" a "U.S. 66" marker is shown followed by "City Limits" signs of Sallisaw and Checotah, which are obviously not on "Route 66", nor have ever been on "Route 66."

Thanks again, Michael, and all the others.
 
Feb 24, 2004
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A "tumbler half-full" can be quite a bit of booze for some people. Quite a lot of variables go into how strongly it will hit any particular individual. Also, the phrase "a drop of liqueur" can be either 1) completely accurate, or 2) a coy euphemism for "a whole lot of liqueur."

Apologies. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Roy
 
Feb 24, 2004
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One of the things about Joughin that's always puzzled me is his walk along the side of the ship - outside of the railing - from the aft well deck to the fantail. That would be absolutely impossible if the deck were anywhere near level. He also said before he went on deck for the last time, he'd heard the loud sounds of metal stress and buckling. I'm wondering if by the time he'd gotten on deck the break had already occurred. But then there's the question, IF the stern rotated prior to going under, did it also lean over onto its port side, enough for Joughin to actually walk somewhat upright along the hull? Or was the loquacious Mr. Joughin telling a really good yarn? I know these are old questions.

>>Also, one opinion expressed is that Joughin had consumed so much alcohol that it acted as anti-freeze and he had no ill effects from being in the freezing cold water for hours.

Hi, Robert!

To my knowledge alcohol doesn't act as antifreeze; in fact, just the opposite. However, it does insulate one from pain and makes the drinker feel superhuman. Also, he/she becomes a little more pliable when under stress. Think of all those traffic accidents where alcohol was involved and the innocent victims were killed outright. But the drunken driver escaped with barely a scratch.

Roy
 
May 3, 2005
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Hi Roy ! -

You are absolutely correct as to the negative effects of alcohol consumed - vs - body antifreeze. (According to my wife,the RN Medical Expert in the family.) My comment must be tendered with "one opinion expressed" :)

-Robert
 
May 3, 2005
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Hi again Roy -

Again, tender this comment with "one opinion expressed" is that Joughin hadn't consumed as much "spirits" as the movies would lead you to believe.

-Robert
 
May 3, 2005
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And one more comment.:

Having been in the U.S.N. and having known and knowing several other persons of those in the category of Winston Churchill's "Former Naval Persons" those of us in that category probably tend to embellish our "sea stories" a bit, so surely we can forgive Chief Baker Charles Joughin, late of the RMS Titanic,for doing so also. :)
 
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