Coal bunkers


Mar 18, 2008
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You can have many schedule plans as you like. But come the day if the person is not up to the job due to illness or personal reasons you must have plan B or a standby. I believe Smith was . Just remember Smith was an human and not a ROBOT!

He has his other officers. In case of illness at sea the Chief Officer would be his partly replacement. On land there would have been others who could take over as Captain Bartlett.
What is your reason to believe Captain Smith was "under huge pressure and stress and clearly lacking in shore time leave"? There is no single evidence to this. Captain Smith had also the time to go home to spend the night there. This does not sound for someone who is under big stress and pressure.

Sorry Mike but you are posting only one believe/theory after the next and even seem not to take time to give a repsonse to questions asked to you. All answers we got is that you did not claim the coal fire was the reason for the sinking or that it is not what you claim but what you got from the book by Molony.
 
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Seumas

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He has his other officers. In case of illness at sea the Chief Officer would be his partly replacement. On land there would have been others who could take over as Captain Bartlett.
What is your reason to believe Captain Smith was "under huge pressure and stress and clearly lacking in shore time leave"? There is no single evidence to this. Captain Smith had also the time to go home to spend the night there. This does not sound for someone who is under big stress and pressure.

Sorry Mike but you are posting only one believe/theory after the next and even seem not to take time to give a repsonse to questions asked to you. All answers we got is that you did not claim the coal fire was the reason for the sinking or that it is not what you claim but what you got from the book by Molony.

Give this guy a medal and a bottle of champagne. Excellent post.
 

Mike Spooner

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The incomplete ship when she departed on the of Wednesday April 10th and list some of the items to. Can be found from the book: ON A SEA OF GLASS. It also state Titanic was so thoroughly behind schedule in completion. Not my word. If you think the book is wrong please let me know.
I can see this does not make the ship seaworthy as the missing parts seem to be mostly furniture items. The book refers to Thomas Andrews at Southampton working long hours leaving the hotel at 8.30 until 6.30 on board when he would return to officers to sign letters. It would appear Andrews has a lot of unfished job on hand and having to give priority to the ones that do matter.
Again this appears this work should be completed in Belfast. As for WSL defence I cannot said for sure want agreement had be made with H&W for the compeletion of the ship!
 

Mark Baber

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You can have many schedule plans as you like. But come the day if the person is not up to the job due to illness or personal reasons you must have plan B or a standby. I believe Smith was under huge pressure and stress and clearly lacking in shore time leave. Just remember Smith was an human and not a ROBOT!
Smith had had plenty of time off, when Olympic was laid up after the Hawke incident and for the propeller repair. There is no reason to believe that his ability to command Titanic was impaired.
 
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Mar 18, 2008
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The incomplete ship when she departed on the of Wednesday April 10th and list some of the items to. Can be found from the book: ON A SEA OF GLASS. It also state Titanic was so thoroughly behind schedule in completion. Not my word. If you think the book is wrong please let me know.

I do not have that book and sure there will be also others who will not have this or other books you are taking the stuff from and pointing to it.
The "unfinished" parts are mainly passenger areas and not all of us agree with some of the conclusions about "unfinished parts" from other researchers. One of the passengers complaining was 2nd class passenger Mrs. Imanita Shelley who was complaining about everything and sure was trying to get a better cabin on board.
Also as already stated, furniture on display in Belfast claimed to have not made it on board Titanic in time had one thing common, they were not for Titanic.

I can see this does not make the ship seaworthy as the missing parts seem to be mostly furniture items. The book refers to Thomas Andrews at Southampton working long hours leaving the hotel at 8.30 until 6.30 on board when he would return to officers to sign letters. It would appear Andrews has a lot of unfished job on hand and having to give priority to the ones that do matter.

Yet it is Andrews himself who wrote to his wife that the ship is complete.
 
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Seumas

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I don't know them personally but I have a strong hunch that Tad Fitch, J. Kent Layton and Bill Wormstedt would be upset that their fine work is being deliberately twisted to support ridiculous theories such as those posted above.
 
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Or perhaps captain Lord didn't have his company boss on board!
Are you saying that Capt. Lord approach the same icefield in the correct manor at reduce speed with extra lookouts? Well I guess you don't know all the facts. Lord never slowed his ship down. He never took it further south to avoid ice that was reported ahead of him on the his latitude. Around 10:20pm Sunday night, Lord Was forced to take evasive action when he spotted ice ahead by reversing his engine and putting his helm hard aport. You picked a poor example.
I believe Smith was under huge pressure and stress and clearly lacking in shore time leave.
So somehow you think that Smith was under huge pressure? To do what? More pressure than any other sea captain on any other voyage? If you want to know about pressure, take a vessel out in a raging North Atlantic storm. Are you buying this nonsense about him wanting to get to NY fast because of a raging fire in a bunker, or afraid another fire will be discovered before their arrival there?
 
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McCready

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Bit of a throw back to the coal bunker question I asked a while ago. Im still having trouble sorting this out. Even TTSM vol. 1 doesnt seem to suffice.

On G deck, on the shelf around the boiler rooms which formed the upper coal bunker, there were the triangular acess "hatches" or holes if you will to allow coal to dropped into the transverse bunkers and for trimmers to drop down through to do their job.

Specifically, how did the trimmers acess the g deck portion of the coal bunks which formed the shelf around the boiler room?
 

Georges Guay

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So somehow you think that Smith was under huge pressure? To do what? More pressure than any other sea captain on any other voyage? If you want to know about pressure, take a vessel out in a raging North Atlantic storm.

Generally speaking, ocean going passenger vessel’s captains have more pressure than any other ship’s masters. Every single authority keeps an eye on them. They are responsible of the safety of thousands of souls, around the clock and even when they’re in their bunk. Bulk cargo doesn’t file any complain that they could have to address to owner. Just think about navigation occurrences, fire, which could result in evacuating thousands of persons in the middle of the night. Tight schedule, economic pressure. Every time they show up, they have to constantly answer questions from the stupidest to the trickiest ones. They have the last word, wishing it’s the proper one. So they really put their head on the block for not that counterpart money.

I have twelve months of sea time as an OOW aboard passenger vessels. It means twelve months of 30 days, 7 days a week, a minimum of 12 hours per day and not a single day off. In and out the busiest ports of the USA East Coast on tight schedule. You better had to be in shape to follow that pressure rhythm. I pilot dozens of cruise ships, meeting fully loaded oil tankers at 125 foot off at a relative speed of 24 knots. Like it or not, you can sense the pressure on the bridge, recorded by cameras and by VDRs. The more the berth approaches after a sleepless night … the more the pressure. Unless someone has done the job, he doesn’t realize what pressure means.

«Capt Haddock undergoes five days ordeal which would wreck most men’s nerves»
«Five years is the outside limit that a human endurance can resist such strain»
«At 5,000$ a year, or less, he assumes responsibility over thousands of lives and million in money»
«To guide a mighty ship at top speed by night and day is the most nerve shattering of profession»


Captain Herbert James Haddock
 
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TimTurner

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Specifically, how did the trimmers acess the g deck portion of the coal bunks which formed the shelf around the boiler room?
McCready, I've been trying to find this out myself.

The access could not be higher than G deck. F deck directly above contained places like the 3rd class dining saloon. There's no way a bunch of thilthy coal trimmers are going to climb all the way to E deck, then down into passenger dining spaces on F deck to open coal hatches onto G deck in the middle of breakfast.

At the highest, the access would have been through the fan rooms on F deck, which I think is unlikely. Perhaps there was an auxiliary access there for when the bunkers were truly full to the top (but I expect there was always a couple of feet between the ceiling and the coal.)

Access inside the bunker can also be ruled out. While there could easily have been a ladder inside for convenience, it couldn't have been the only access. While filling the bunkers, the trimmers would have been trapped at the top with no way down since the ladders would be covered in coal.

We also need to keep in mind that coal could be any level at any time, and require access. This means that access hatches must have been pretty high, and that there must have been some kind of ladder inside the bunker near those hatches.

We know there were catwalks in the boiler rooms, leading up through G deck level. Therefore, it's pretty certain that there were hatches from the catwalks on G deck inside the boiler room casings into the coal bunkers, where there were probably ladders.
 

TimTurner

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From the British testimony of trimmer George Cavell, it appears there were indeed hatches and ladders inside the boiler room. I'd assume that at least some of these were on Gdeck, but there may have been others lower down. Cavell was inside the bunker when the iceberg hit and was partly burried by shifting coal.

4205. You got out into the stokehold there, I suppose?
- Yes. After that I came up right up to the bunker door, and then came into the stokehold.

4206. Is that higher up, at a higher level?
- Yes.

4207. And you climbed out of that, did you?
- Yes.

4208. And you got into the stokehold?
- I came down the ladder and came into the stokehold.

4209. On to the plate?
- Yes.
 
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gogators1987

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The coal bunkers had 5 doors directly close to the boilers. BR 6 had only 4 if I remember right.
from what george cavell a trimmer said...there are 6 doors in boiler room 4 he was working in starboard side aft bunker and that he felt a shock and the coal fell around him...he also said that he got out of bunker door at a higher level...so that tells me that there's five bunker doors across from the boilers and one bunker door at top of the bunker
 

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