Collapsible A Odyssey

[William Oakes]

So we all know the story of the three men in collapsible A, who were found 200 miles from the wrecksite by the RMS Oceanic.
I own an original copy of one of these newspaper articles.
Supposedly there was one man in evening dinner dress and two Fireman found in states of bad decomposition.
When Lowe orgainized his floatilla and rearranged boats, these three chaps were presumed dead and set afloat.
Bravo Lowe for saving lives.
So some of these news stories describe the men as having cork form lifebelts in thier mouths.
Some reports go even further to state that there are bite marks on the wooden parts of the lifeboat, implying that the men were indeed alive, and starved to death at sea.
In my humble opinion, this was irresponsible and sensationalistic journalism.
What say Ye?
Opinions welcomed!

 

[Seumas]

They were already dead when Lowe found them. The unconscious fireman John Thompson (was David Livshin another ?) was taken along which shows they all must have been checked for signs of life.

There are differing descriptions of two out of the three bodies were in Collapsible A (I think one of them has since been identified as passenger Thomson Beattie ?), one of them was indeed a male passenger, but description of the other two vary.

They have variously been described as a pair AB's, firemen or trimmers, stewards or passengers. The two men's clothing was possibly so damaged by the elements that it was anyone's guess. The three bodies were found in a horrific state of advanced decomposition, and the limbs of one of them are reported to have broken off when moved.

The cork in their mouths is unsurprising, the sea in places was covered in brown/red cork fragments from the ships insulation system. A dead man lying on his back with his mouth open will obviously collect bits of it.

The eating cork angle sounds dubious and more like unethical journalists just wanting "colour" for a story and resorting to the old trope of sea disaster, starvation.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Some reports go even further to state that there are bite marks on the wooden parts of the lifeboat, implying that the men were indeed alive, and starved to death at sea.
In my humble opinion, this was irresponsible and sensationalistic journalism.

IF such or similar things were really reported, that would indeed be the lowest form of gutter yellow journalism and IMO certainly not true.

Reports from the 13 survivors on collapsible A more or less tallied. They went through quite a bit of a nightmare. At one stage there might have been around 20 people inside or partially within Collapsible A when it started to drift away from the debris left by the Titanic, with several others hanging on to the sides but not having the strength to pull themselves on board. Most if the latter, which probably included Edith Evans, lost their hold and drifted away to their deaths but a few like Rhoda Abbott, August Weikmann, William Lucas, William McIntyre, Thomson Beattie, (?) Arthur O'keefe and a couple of firemen managed to hail themsleves in to join those already on board. August Wennerstrom tried to pull Elin Lindell on board but did not have the strength to do so and could only watch her die. Her husband Edvard made it partially into Collapsible A but driftedinto unconsciousness and died. He and perhaps as many as 3 or 4 others were given sea burials by the remaining occupants of Collapsible A during the next few hours. By the time Lowe found them, there were 13 survivors and 3 dead people in the waterlogged lifeboat. Of the three dead, the man in the suit was Thomson Beattie and one of the unidentified "firemen" was likely Arthur O'Keefe in rough country clothes; the third body was that of an unidentified fireman.

Reportedly, Lowe made certain that they were deceased, covered them with life jackets the best he could and left Collapsibe A adrift. By the time the Oceanic found the boat almost a month later, effects of exposure to the elements were harshly obvious on the 3 bodies. Still the crew covered the bodies in canvas sacks with considerable difficulty and gave the 3 men a proper sea burial. Collapsible A was hauled on board to be taken to New York.

 

[Steven Christian]

IF such or similar things were really reported, that would indeed be the lowest form of gutter yellow journalism and IMO certainly not true.

Reports from the 13 survivors on collapsible A more or less tallied. They went through quite a bit of a nightmare. At one stage there might have been around 20 people inside or partially within Collapsible A when it started to drift away from the debris left by the Titanic, with several others hanging on to the sides but not having the strength to pull themselves on board. Most if the latter, which probably included Edith Evans, lost their hold and drifted away to their deaths but a few like Rhoda Abbott, August Weikmann, William Lucas, William McIntyre, Thomson Beattie, (?) Arthur O'keefe and a couple of firemen managed to hail themsleves in to join those already on board. August Wennerstrom tried to pull Elin Lindell on board but did not have the strength to do so and could only watch her die. Her husband Edvard made it partially into Collapsible A but driftedinto unconsciousness and died. He and perhaps as many as 3 or 4 others were given sea burials by the remaining occupants of Collapsible A during the next few hours. By the time Lowe found them, there were 13 survivors and 3 dead people in the waterlogged lifeboat. Of the three dead, the man in the suit was Thomson Beattie and one of the unidentified "firemen" was likely Arthur O'Keefe in rough country clothes; the third body was that of an unidentified fireman.

Reportedly, Lowe made certain that they were deceased, covered them with life jackets the best he could and left Collapsibe A adrift. By the time the Oceanic found the boat almost a month later, effects of exposure to the elements were harshly obvious on the 3 bodies. Still the crew covered the bodies in canvas sacks with considerable difficulty and gave the 3 men a proper sea burial. Collapsible A was hauled on board to be taken to New York.

Interesting. I have read about that before but I always thought Lowe had found them sooner than a couple of hours later. Thanks for the post.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I have read about that before but I always thought Lowe had found them sooner than a couple of hours later.

From what I have read, it was starting to get light when the bedraggled survivors on board Collapsible A saw other lifeboats. The nearest turned out to be Lowe's Lifeboat #14 with Collapsible D in tow; some exchanges between those two boats might have taken place by then. The occupants of Collapsible A cried out to attract Lowe's attention and the Fifth Officer's response was to fire a shot or two into the air as they approached. Ostensibly, this was to deter the survivors on board Collapsible A from 'storming' his boats but considering that they were almost frozen stiff and could barely move, Lowe's action was ridiculous.

Such theatrical snippets about Lowe that night have really diminished his image in my view. I don't believe that he held a gun to a boy's head or anything, but all this talk about telling the wailing women in his boat that he would have used the gun to blow off his own head except that he was responsible for them etc sounds very very B-movieish.

 

[Steven Christian]

Yes. Also, although we'll probably never know for sure that whole exchange about the "Japs" always seemed a little off to me. The situation they found themselves in doesn't seem like those things would be going thru ones mind at that point. Cheers.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

As I said, almost everyone who survived on board Collapsible A went through a personal and collective nightmare. Rhoda Abbott lost both her children, Richard Williams saw his father crushed to death right before his eyes, Wennerstrom first lost his grip on the children he was trying to save and then tried in vain to help the Lindells (including holding onto Elin Lindell but unable to drag her on board before she died), Abelseth and Rheims both lost their brothers-in-law after they jumped into the water together and so on. Afterwards, all of them had to watch those hanging on to the sides of Collapsible A gradually let go and drift away to their deaths and then struggle to give sea burials to those who made it but died on board in those hellish, freezing and waterlogged conditions. John Thompson and William Mellors were injured and everyone suffered from severe frostbite from their lower legs being immersed in the freezing water for a few hours. Steward Brown's feet swelled so much that his boots split while Williams' legs were so discoloured that they thought he was wearing socks when he boarded the Carpathia. That experience must have been severely physically and psychologically traumatizing but they somehow managed to get on with their lives afterwards.

That is why I get so annoyed at the seemingly trivial but truly ludicrous incident of Lowe firing a shot into the air as his boat approached Collapsible A. The survivors on board Collapsible A were in no condition to storm the proverbial teacup, let alone another lifeboat even if they had the inclination to do so.

 

[Alex Kiehl]

Don't forget the nightmares experienced by Thompson Beattie, Edith Evans, Arthur Keefe, and Seaman Davis (?)--all of whom never got to share their stories. Any ideas if the unidentified seaman in Boat A was in fact Seaman Davis? Also, any thoughts on the number of occupants in Boat A who were thrown/washed overboard after they succumbed? My guess was nine.

 

[Seumas]

Don't forget the nightmares experienced by Thompson Beattie, Edith Evans, Arthur Keefe, and Seaman Davis (?)--all of whom never got to share their stories. Any ideas if the unidentified seaman in Boat A was in fact Seaman Davis? Also, any thoughts on the number of occupants in Boat A who were thrown/washed overboard after they succumbed? My guess was nine.

There are conflicting accounts about the identity of two of the bodies on Collapsible A. One was definitely a passenger (thought to have been Beattie) but the other two are variously described as being AB's, firemen or trimmers, stewards or passengers.

It's impossible to say really.

What evidence do you have that AB Davis was on Collapsible A ?

 

[Arun Vajpey]

During the hellish few hours that the eventual survivors on board Collapsible A endured, not only did several 'hangers on' on the sides drift away to their deaths but a few who managed to haul themselves on board died as well. According to On A Sea Of Glass and a few other sources, at one stage there were 5 dead bodies in the bottom of the boat and some of them were given a sea burial to ease the burden on the waterlogged and still leaking lifeboat. Edvard Lindell died quite early and his body was eased overboard and so there must have been 2 or 3 others who had to be similarly let go later. I have not come across any snippet which even provosionally identified any of them; nor any bit of information suggesting that either AB Stephen Davis or his brother John Davis (an Assistant Baker) even made it to Collapsible A. In fact, John Davis' body was recovered by the Mackay Bennett but given a sea burial afterwards.

Of the 3 bodies which remained on Collapsible A after the survivors were rescued by Lowe, one was in a lounge suit and almost every account identifies him as First Class passenger Thomson Beattie. One other was in a fireman's clothes but remained unidentified. The third was thought to be another fireman or crew member but there is some evidence to suggest that it might have been Third Class passenger Arthur O'Keefe from Rahway, New Jersey. Olaus Abelseth, a survivor on Collapsible A, told of an American from New Jersey with whom he shared a compartment on board the Boat Train on the Titanic's sailing day; I believe O'Keefe was on the boat train. The next time the two men met was on board Collapsible A and despite Abelseth's efforts to help, the other man kept drifting in and out of consciousness and eventually died just as dawn broke.