Collapsible A

[Peter Engberg-Klarström]

I agree with Mr Wormstedt; I am not convinced that one of the bodies found in boat A was that of Arthur Keefe. As far as I can remember, Carl Olof Jansson kept himself busy 'throwing' (pushing would probably be a better word) dead bodies overboard, and if Mr Keefe indeed was on the boat and succumbed to exposure, perhaps he was pushed overboard?
Also, as far as I can remember, the bodies on the boat have been identified as Mr Beattie and two firemen - I am not sure where 'one fireman and one sailor' comes from.

Peter

 

[Peter Engberg-Klarström]

As for Vartanian; to a Scandinavian person, that name doesn't sound like 'volunteer' at all; I have a feeling that Olaus Abelseth was referring to either William McIntyre or William Mellor; we Scandinavians don't discern between 'v' and 'w', since we haven't got the 'w' sound.

 

[Manuel Reiprich]

I have a question about the position of collapsible A at 2.20. How far was it away from the sinking stern? We know much about boat b, that it was directly under the big ship propellers. But what do we know about A? If I remember correctly, it's distance to the sinking position was larger.

 

[Andrew Y Liu]

Hello Manuel,
You were wondering where Collapsible A was. It was probably somewhere farther from the sinking stern. if you watch the movie titanic, it will probably show it.

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

Since A and B both floated off the Boat Deck at pretty much the same time, seems to me both boats must have been fairly close to the sinking titanic at 2:20. A bit off to the sides from the center line, but couldn't have been that far apart.

 

[David G. Brown]

One thought-- collapsibles A and B could only have been close to the bow section, and specifically to the front of the superstructure. They would necessarily have been hundreds of feet away from the stern as it upended and disappeared. So, the question is not "how far from Titanic," but properly, "how far from the stern (or bow)?"

-- David G. Brown

 

[Manuel Reiprich]

Andrew, I don't think that ”žTitanic“ is a reliable source for my question.
David, I wondered myself , but the position of “B” was not near the bow, it was nearby the stern when it sunks. Think about Jack Thayers statement, that, when he reached Collapsible B, the propellers of the ship were directly over him and the boat. I think the suction of the ship sucked the collapsible in the direction of the stern.
My question refers to some survivor statements about position of A in relation to the stern, I haven't found some.

Best regards

Manuel

 

[Tad G. Fitch]

As Bill and David have said, Collapsible A does appear to have been in front of the superstructure, as was Collapsible B initially. I'm not sure how or why, because the accounts I have seen do not describe this part, but according to Jack Thayer and Eugene Daly, Collapsible B ended up under the stern, and Daly remarked that he believed the stern and propellers were going to come down right on top of them. I tend to think that this was after the break-up, when the stern rotated around though. Certainly, both collapsibles must have been forward or off the line of the superstructure when that section of the ship submerged.

Kind regards,
Tad

 

[David G. Brown]

The front of the boat deck is hundreds of feet from the locus of the break, and even farther to the fantail. Collapsible B had no means of propulsion. To move it several hundred feet would have required some motive force. To some extent, that force could have been the wash of water when funnel #2 fell. However, even that event should not have caused an overturned hull to "shoot" many hundreds of feet.

The distance collapsible B moved and the amount or rotation of the stern are not scientifically documented, so can be debated without result. Still, the forces available do not seem sufficient to overcome the distance between forward boat deck and even a 180-degree rotated stern.

My conclusion is that Thayer and Daly were speaking more about their perceptions than physical reality. In that sense, they told 100% the truth as they experienced it. The human mind can "zoom in" on a portion of its field of vision, sort of like digital cameras have electronic zooming capabilities. The horror of the situation probably magnified the men's perceptions of closeness.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Paul Lee]

Don't forget August Wennestrom's recollections as reported in "End of a Dream". He saw someone lowering himself down to the water beside the rudder. I don't know how he could have seen that unless he was in the vicinity

 

[David G. Brown]

Paul-- On what did this person lower himself down? Serious question. A ship Titanic's size doesn't have coils of line suitable for the purpose just lying about like an old Spanish galleon. Again, not to question August Wennestrom's desire to tell the truth, just to point out there is something within his story that requires explanation before the story can be used as proof of anything.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Tad G. Fitch]

I don't know what to make of the accounts from those on Collapsible B, they could very well have been telling the truth as they saw it, regarding the stern looming overhead, or they may have been intentionally, or unintentionally exaggerating as David suggested.

Either way, we really only have their accounts to go on given the lack of data and gaps in the forensic evidence, so this would be worth a closer look, just for curiosity's sake. I do know that Daly gave at least one public account and a couple of private ones mentioning this detail and that he thought the stern would fall down on top of them, so he at least believed it to be what really happened. Whether he was correct is subject to interpretation.

Take care guys,
Tad

 

[Mike Poirier]

I am not sure if the boats would have been specifically to the front of the superstructure. They were in and about the vicinity of the davits for 2 and 1. I don't think the wash of the Titanic taking a dive would send the boats out ahead of it. I am not saying it sent the boats all the way to the stern, but the initial wave sent them outwards. With the ship diving forward, I imagine the boats having already drifted out, watched the Titanic sink past them, rather like a car driving by.

 

[João Carlos Pereira Martins]

I completely agree with Michael! I don't think that a semi-flooded collapsible would get so far away from his original point, and you should remember the confusion, the ropes and pieces of wreckage which were already in the water, making difficult to boat A to drift away from the ship, even more to get close to the stern... it just wouldn't have enough propulsion for it, and in my opinion neither the collapse of funnel 1 or 2 or the waves or the "rough" waters would send the boat to such a distance.

Regards, João

 

[John Paul]

I read that Collapsible A was swamped and half-flooded and some passengers managed to get into Collapsible A(one of them is Rosa Abbott, the only woman to survive after Collapsible D was lowered.) Collapsible D was the last lifeboat to be lowered.