Collapsible A


M

Magnar Vikoeren

Guest
Hello !

Collapsible A was found by the 'Oceanic' one month after the disaster with three bodies inside, and the crew thought them to be one passenger and two sailors. One of them was identified as 1st class passenger Mr. Thompson Beattie, and one of the 'sailors' probably was 3rd class passenger Mr. Arthur Keke
who gave up life shortly before they were rescued by lifeboat 14 (see biography of Olaus Abelseth).
As far as I find out, none of the crew died in that lifeboat, two more passengers actually did,
Mrs. Elin Lindell drowned before she was dragged onboard, and her husband Mr. Edward Lindell died shortly after, and most likely his body was thrown over board to save weight (see biography).
I can't find any more passengers nor crew that died in Collapsible, so that leaves me a mystery about the third person.
Does anybody know anything about this matter ?

Regards Magnar
 

Ben Holme

Member
Feb 11, 2001
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Hi Magnar,

Firstly, the initial description was of a FIREMAN and a sailor besides Thomson Beattie, not two sailors. It seems a possibility that either the fireman or the sailor was in fact Arthur Keefe of New Jersey. If Keefe was the "sailor", we may never know the identity of the third occupant as he was probably one of the many firemen, trimmers, or greasers who perished in the sinking. If Keefe looked more like a fireman than a sailor, it would bring the number of possible candidates down to about 20 (seamen who perished).

Hope this helps,
Ben
 
M

Magnar Vikoeren

Guest
Hei Ben !
Thank you foor your answer. I made myself an idea
that the third person might be an unidentified crew or passenger however, I found it strange that no sources I have
seeked so far never mentioned this.

Sorry I wrote Keke - I of course ment Arthur Keefe, but you got that.

Magnar
(Oslo, Norway)
 
Apr 25, 2001
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Hello everybody, I can't remember where it is stated that one of the bodies was that of a sailor. I have always been under the impression that there were two fireman part from Mr Beattie. Since almost all of the ABs who were lost were identified or at least found in the ocean, there seems to be a very small possibility that there was a sailor in A as well.

Best regards,

Peter
 

Ben Holme

Member
Feb 11, 2001
714
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Hello Peter,

Good point raised here, although the only description I have encountered is of Beattie, a seaman, and a fireman. My source comes from White Star representative Harold Wingate's letter to Col. Gracie which appeared in the latter's book, "The Truth About Titanic". But I'm certain I have read this elsewhere. I retract my suggestion of 20 possibilities as you make a good point about the number of seamen bodies being recovered in addition to Messrs. Crouch and Matherson, the only ABs who were positively identified.

If we add to this the six seaman (inc. Boatswain Nicholls) who vanished below decks at an early stage, the number of possibilities for boat A is further reduced. In my opinion, Arthur Keefe was probably the "seaman" described.

Warm Regards,
Ben
 
Apr 25, 2001
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Hello Ben,

interesting points there. I believe, however, that almost all of the bodies of the ten sailors who were lost were found in the sea afterwards, identified or not. I haven't got the body list with me right now, but I know that at least four bodies recovered were those of 'sailors'. I don't think six were lost at an early stage at all. If they were, they almost certainly appeared at a later point. The only person who mentioned that 'disapperance' was, I believe, Lightoller. None of the other sailors mentions this in interviews or at the hearings in America or Britain (to the best of my knowledge), so I believe it to be yet another 'myth'.

Best regards,

Peter
 
Apr 25, 2001
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Ben, one more thing: the four bodies mentioned above should be in addition to the at least three who were identified (Couch, Matherson and Lyons), i e a total of at least seven, leaving only three unaccounted for.

Again, best regards,

Peter
 

Ben Holme

Member
Feb 11, 2001
714
5
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Hi Peter,

Good point, I had forgotton Lyons. Is it at all possible to suggest identities to the four unidentified seamen?

Warm regards,
Ben
 
Apr 25, 2001
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Dear Ben, no it would be virtually impossible, but I will make a try anyway.

Bodies number 20, 29, 40, 160 and 254 were probably those of sailors/ABs. No 24 was very likely Bertram Terrell, as for the others I really don't know.

Best regards,

Peter
 

Ben Holme

Member
Feb 11, 2001
714
5
173
Hi Peter,

Interesting observation re 24. I had missed that one. Harry Holman could have been #20, but as my suggestion is based purely on age (Holman - 28, body - 27) his claim is very tenuous. It's a fascinating line of investigation nonetheless.

Regards,
Ben
 

Lane Kimmel

Member
Jul 27, 2010
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Here I was thinking that the forums looked a little dead,
happy.gif
Happily comply and look forward to digging through some old threads with the hope that the community is still alive and well.
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,614
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Easley South Carolina
Thanks for taking care of the profile issue.

Unfortunately, interest in the Titanic is not what it was. There are a number of forums out there with this one, Titanic-Titanic, Titanic Research and Modeling Association and the THS forum being among the best on the web...best because people who actually know what they're talking about hang out one those sites...but they're not all that active these days.

Hopefully, this situation will improve some with the centenary.
 

mueller

Member
Apr 1, 2012
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How did the Oceanic find one of the Titanic's lifeboats?

hello i am looking for some info about the oceanic a recent news report from fox news said how the oceanic found one of the titanic's life boats knownas collapsible a and i was wondering if anyone can tell me about the circumstances of how it was found. was the oceanic assigned specifically to find the lifeboat or was it found by accident?
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
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Nobody was looking specifically for the boat - it was spotted by the lookouts ahead of the Oceanic and reported in the usual way as a possible hazard. The oceans are vast, of course, but the shipping lanes in which vessels cross them are much narrower so finds of this kind are not rare, especially within days (or in this case a few weeks) of an incident. Several other ships engaged in normal Atlantic crossings had earlier reported sightings of wreckage and bodies from the Titanic. In time, ocean currents are likely to carry the debris of a wreck well away from the shipping lanes, probably never to be seen again.
 

PRR5406

Member
Jun 9, 2016
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As I recall from readings, the bodies had been picked at by seabirds. The eye sockets were empty and other damage was apparent. Sorry to bring up a gruesome detail, but what the heck!
 

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