Collapsible C stories


I don't know offhand but the list of those known or reasonably believed to have been in the boat can be found HERE. I seem to recall that Frankie Goldsmith was very reluctant to discuss the sinking...a common occurance I might add. I recall that he mentioned the roar of cheering at a stadium sports event reminded him of the cries he heard after the ship sank. Not surprising that he tended to avoid such events.
 
In the times Frank Goldsmith did recount his story he always believed that he was in collapsible D, however details from his accounts as well as those from his mother strongly point to 'C.' In addition to the Goldsmiths I can think of William Carter, Margaret Devany, May Howard, Abraham Hyman, Shawneene Whabee, and crewmen Albert Pearcey and Albert Hunt. I know there must be others - I'm just not remembering. Some of the aforementioned accounts are on this site and some are in the inquiry testimony transcripts.
 
Hi Paul,

Amy Stanley also left a detailed account of her experiences aboard collapsible C.

The majority of the survivors in this boat was Syrians - and many of their recollections are disappointingly vague. Most of them remembered the gunshots though.

Mike Findlay
 
Michael, are we absolutely sure that Amy Stanley actually left in C? Hilda Hellström also describes leaving the ship in a boat with canvas sides which had 'Italians' in it and she thougth there were 35 people in it - her story matches boat C perfectly. She does not, however, mention anything about shootings near her boat. Anna Salkjelsvik doesn't mention shootings either, by the way.

Peter
 
Hey Peter,

Many people who were in boat C didn't mention the shootings but a fair number of Syrians did who were there did.

As I mentioned above, and as we've discussed for years, some of the Syrians leave much to be desired since we never know how much of their tale is factual or reporter influenced.

It is my belief that Amy Stanley was in boat C, although I've never seen anything contradictory.

Shall we start a thread on the events at boat C? That would be very interesting given the speculation over the gunshots.

Just last month, Mary Nackid's grandson told me that his grandmother, who didn't like to speak about the disaster, told him that she saw two men from Lebanon shot as she entered her lifeboat. She was so upset about it that she covered up her husband, who had managed to get in the boat with her, with her skirt. Other women covered him as well according to Mrs. Nackid.

An interesting scenario to be sure -- I hope others will add their thoughts.

Hope you're doing well,

Best,

Mike
 
Hey Peter,

I'm not 100% certain about Mrs. Whabee being in collapsible C either - although she was certainly in one of the two collapsibles to leave the ship under davits.

The Syrians are tricky - many of them had assembled near boat C but at some point a fair number of them managed to cross the deck and arrive in the vicinity of where boat D was loading. Were they directed there? or did they strike out on their own?

Mike
 
Hello again, Mike. I remember seeing that Mrs Peter said she was in a boat which was not crowded at all - and Mrs Whabee said Mrs Peter was in her boat. That's why I believe they were in D rather than C. Admittedly - I wasn't there, so I really don't know.
I find it interesting that the Syrians mention shootings, whereas the other survivors from boat C don't. Is it possible that, in fact, some of the Syrians actually left in boat 14, what with the shootings and all?
Some of the stories I've read are rather vague - take Mrs Yazbeck for instance. Her boat wasn't really full, either. I have a feeling she, her sister and nephews might have entered No 16 or possibly No 10, in the vicinity of No 14, where guns were used.
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Bill Wormstedt's site has some material from Abraham Hyman, including a transcript from an article in the New York Herald:

home comcast net %7Ebwormst/titanic/shots/shots.htm[/url]

It's a curious piece - the headlines say this:
SAW CHIEF OFFICER WILDE END HIS LIFE WITH PISTOL
-----
Abraham Hyman Tells of Seeing Him Struggling to Keep Third Class Passengers from Stampeding - Hundreds Blown from the Titanic by Explosions - Boat Load Capsizes

And the reporter states that:
Abraham Hyman, of Manchester, England, who was coming to this country to join a brother in Paterson, N.J., is one of the passengers who told about seeing Chief Officer Wilde rushing around with a revolver in his hand. Mr. Hyman was a third class passenger, and is one of the few men on that list that escaped with his life. He said after the lifeboat in which he left the steamship put out some distance shrill cries and screams could be heard distinctly.

There was not much panic before he left the Titanic, he said, except when the chief officer fired into a belligerent group of third class passengers. A man standing next to him had his chin shot off, he said.
The 'chin shot off' appears in other accounts as well - some sources suggest Murdoch might have been the shooter.
 
My site, which Inger points to, also says:

"Another account by Hyman, from the New York Herald, April 19th, 1912, claims that he saw Chief Officer Wilde shot himself with a pistol. Careful reading of the article, however, shows that this is not what Hyman said, though it is part of the headline. In fact, in this account, or other accounts from Hyman, he does not say who he saw firing shots.

Hyman appears to have left the Titanic on one of the aft lifeboats, probably #13. The New York Herald account above mentions leaving on "the next to last lifeboat in that part of the ship" and avoiding the pump discharge, both of which are known to have occured with #13."
 
Who, then, have we got as first-hand witnesses of the alleged shootings at/near boat C?
I remember Hugh Woolner said something to that effect, but
a) he was on the port side at the time and
b) his impression was that there was firing in the air and that nobody was injured.
 
Woolner was on the port side when he first heard sounds of a disturbance ('a certain kind of shouting') on the other side. This prompted him to cross over (presumably using the bridge) and it was just as he arrived on the starboard side that he had a clear view of two muzzle flashes pointing into the air. At the same time he heard Murdoch shouting at men to get out of the boat.

Frank Goldsmith (who always insisted, rightly or wrongly, that he escaped in boat D) had this to say: "You may have read about this man shooting negroes on board the Titanic. Folks, that was an absolute lie, because the man who was doing the shooting was only four feet away from little Frankie. And what was he firing? Not a rifle, a pistol. And in what direction was he firing it? Straight at the sky, as a warning, because as you could well imagine many people were learning that this was the last boat and they'd better get over there or else. And they were trying to rush to collapsible D to climb aboard it, and this was a warning to them. Keep back."
 
Frank Goldsmith was not in "C" but always stated he was in "D". This is propagated by those who choose to use portions of his interviews but not all of them. Including Mr. Edward kamuta who was supposed to be his friend. In his accounts he would state how calm and orderly the boat deck was and never mentioned J. Bruce Ismay as being in his boat to the best of my knowledge. As most of you know the boat deck on the starboard side was in chaos at this time but the port side was in an orderly way as expressed by numerous witnesses. As far as these two items go if anyone has any evidence to the contrary please contact me and I will gladly research them and add another posting. Of course I am prejudice by the fact that he was my Grandfather, but that doesn't mean I won't listen to reason and facts.
 
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