Confession about Dr Ballard

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I never agreed with Bob Ballards idea of look but dont touch.<<

Well, one of the beefs that Dr. Ballard's critics have mooted was that this was not his original stance and that his current anti-salvage stance is little more then sour grapes and hypocrisy on his part because he was barred from claiming the wreck or salvage rights.

The problem with that is even if the "sour grapes hypocrit" charge is true, that doesn't mean his current stand is wrong. (Doesn't mean it's right either.) What it is, is an opinion on a highly subjective moral issue. My objection is that rather then discuss the merits of either side, partisans in the debate prefer to attack the person offering the opinion, as if somehow his/her personal morality somehow makes the opinion wrong when it really has nothing to do with it.

A non-sequiter and ad hominum fallacy all in one.

 

[lewis beacham]

Hi

I dont mean they should sell them for profit I am just saying preseve them for the future generation to learn more about the wreck and the disaster and the consequences of not having enough lifeboats!

from
Lewis

P.S I am on no ones side I just think the artifacts should be preseved after all it wont be long before she disapears off the face of the earth, if they stay there they too will be gone.

 

[Matt Pereira]

Lewis I agree with you. I for one am one of the few that agree that the marconi system would be removed since the boatdeck and officers deck house roof isnt getting any better and we are getting close to that system falling into the wreck to be lost. I dont know I feel that, that is something that we should have. We raised the whisles and we got a chance to hear how they sound and we have a chance at atleast building a replica of the system used on Titanic to atleast hear how her "spark" sounded on the other end.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I dont mean they should sell them for profit <<

Nor did I state that you did. In point of fact, I didn't even address that issue at all. What I am saying is that any questions concerning Dr. Ballard's motivations for his past and present stands on salvage have nothing to do with whether or not he's right. That fine point appears to be completely missed by partisans on both sides of this controversy.

For my own part, I stand in favour of careful and responsible salvage, conservation, and preservation but I'm aware that others differ. I respect their reasons for that even if I can't quite agree with them.

 

[lewis beacham]

Sorry Michael

I was talking to stan about the profit bit as he seemed to bring the subject up.
I do agree with you Matt they should build a replica of the Marconi set, though it would be nice if it had a real ship to go on!

Pitty James cameron did not keep the replica used in the film.

From
Lewis

P.S Matt I dont think it would be wise to remove the original one incase it is damaged when moved. oh yes was the marconi set made with wood?
And before I forget what happened to the Olympics whistles? where they sold when she was scapped in 1935? if so please tell me?

 

[Matt Pereira]

Lewis, when Jim went into the marconi shack and the silent room they found all the equipment to be there and in very good shape, you can see the levers set where they were set the night of the sinking you can see that the fuses supposedly blown and burned the wood backing and the power handle was in the off position.

Jims replica was good but it wouldnt be 100% percise as in having the orignal to take apart and clean and get exactly how it was wired. I dont know if i would want to try using the orignal after being cleaned up and preserved considering that it might do more damage.

 

[lewis beacham]

Hi matt

Well if jim went into the wireless room and found it in a salvageable condition raise it but who would pay the bill RMS Titanic INC?

Well I still think they should build a replica like jim cameron did but unfortunately the cost would be rather high.

From
Lewis

P.S Do you know what happened to the Olympics whistles? where they put on another ship when she was stripped? (sorry I am interested to know)

 

[Matt Pereira]

Im not sure about the Olympics whistles.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Im not sure about the Olympics whistles.<<

I doubt they survived. They might have but it's not the sort of thing that anybody at the time would have thought worthy of special attention. A ship being scrapped was a source of refined metal and anything not otherwise usable would have gone to the smelter's furnace.

 

[Matt Pereira]

True Michael, no one would have been thinking about collectable item or value in the future they were worried about value at that time. Thats why lots of people have wishes that they would have kept something they got rid of in the past cause now its worth a lot or its rare to find.

 

[lewis beacham]

Oh thats a shame

well it did say that they were being sold in the 1935 auction mag (courtesy of Eric sauder its on his web site)
oh well at least we heard it in that documentery olympic, titanic, britannic

from
Lewis

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>well it did say that they were being sold in the 1935 auction mag <<

If that's the case, they may have found a home on another ship or a factory which whistles the time for meals and shift change. There may have even been a record of the sale at one time, but the chances of it having survived to this day are vanishingly small.

 

[Eric Paddon]

I've been out of the loop a while but the two cents I wanted to add to this thread just center on the fact that the reason why Robert Ballard became such a polarizing figure is not because he was anti-salvage, but the fact that there is a long documented trail of his resorting to outright deceit in trying to advance an anti-salvage agenda while attempting to ruin the reputations of those who did engage in salvage activities.

All I have to do is mention his tall tale about the crows nest telephone and leave it at that (though goodness knows there's a lot more that could be added).

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Eric, that may or may not be the case. The problem here is the underlying assumption that Dr. Ballard's ethics and morality somehow determine whether or not he's right on a given issue.

While it may be cause to be careful, by and of themselves, they do not.

Be he a saint or a sinner, he still manages to raise some perfectly legitimate questions and concerns. I would point to his claims about explorers doing damage to the wreck which, while they may be exaggerated, are in general terms a demonsterable fact.

I'm not saying anyone has to love the guy, but give him his due credit when he scores.

 

[Eric Paddon]

My problem Michael, is that I'm long past a point where I can take anything the guy says about the Titanic seriously any longer. He has to be held accountable for his own conduct, and if he wants to express concerns about the state of the wreck, they have to be divorced completely from the general issue of salvage which to me at least, is the only reason why he ever sounds off on it at all.