Controversial Emergency Boat #1

Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
Therefore when the order is given to lower the boats, surely this the time to tell your officers you may lower the boat at water level, but make sure the boats are filled before rowing away. More evident can be seen he not give that order to fill the boats
What "evident"? How do we know Captain Smith did not order Wilde and Murdoch to load the lifeboats "as full as you considered safe" or something like that? None of the three survived. Lightoller might have been there too but conveniently "forgotten" the exchange.

As for Lightoller's testimony, I have always felt that the statements were carefully modulated to show himself up rather positively. The more "heroic" sounding statements like the one suggesting that Lightoller had to almost urge a semi-dazed captain to start loading lifeboats, or the "Not bloody likely!" quip or the business about going under with the ship only to be blown free by a jet of hot air etc - all unwitnessed by any survivor and so unverifiable.
 
Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
What "evident"? How do we know Captain Smith did not order Wilde and Murdoch to load the lifeboats "as full as you considered safe" or something like that? None of the three survived. Lightoller might have been there too but conveniently "forgotten" the exchange.
I have no evident that Smith did give such a order because didn't survive to tell his side of the story. But I do believe the officers where highly reasonable men and only did what there captain has ask for.
I would agree sworn given evident in a enquiry can be a tricky one at the best of times. But still feel uncomfortable that half filled lifeboats are been sent away and the officers where at fault? NO.
Afraid it down to the captain responsibility. If just been another crossing like the last 150 or so. I am quite sure there would of never been a serious problem. But I have to question was he just passed his best and too old for the job in coping with such an emergency situation on hand.
 
Seumas

Seumas

Member
Firstly, the word is evidence, not evident.

Secondly, you were told a few weeks ago by a moderator, to stop pushing the "Smith was too old - Smith was ill" nonsense which is not based on any facts. Take the hint.
 
Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
You have take this more serious someone has to be responsible for the lack of people been rescued in lifeboats resulting in hundreds lives are lost. Titanic even had advantage of a calm sea to.
OK I will except some of the loses are due to no full training was given to the officers, which quite frankly the BoT should of taken more seriously before issuing seaworthy certificates.
But boat No1 with only 12 in is just unacceptable.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
I do believe the officers where highly reasonable men and only did what there captain has ask for.
One has to be "reasonable" to become a Senior Officer on the largest ship of a World-known line like White Star. That highly reasonable officer would have then understood and interpreted the Captain's orders and carried them out accordingly. I am sure that's what they did, even tough there was a difference in which the orders were interpreted on the two sides.

As I said, we will never know what exactly Captain Smith ordered Wilde and Murdoch to do regarding lifeboats, but whatever it was, we can be certain that the two most senior Officers - both Chief Officers with Murdoch only temporarily "demoted" to First - were included. I am sure Lightoller was too, but then only he of the four survived and so we have only his own testimony to go by.
Afraid it down to the captain responsibility. If just been another crossing like the last 150 or so. I am quite sure there would of never been a serious problem. But I have to question was he just passed his best and too old for the job in coping with such an emergency situation on hand.
There is no evidence at all that Captain Smith had any health issues or was too old for the job. Yes, IMO he could have shown more awareness and taken more precautions earlier that Sunday as the ice warnings started to come in and he knew that the Titanic was headed towards the ice field. But that shows a degree of complacence but not inability to make decisions. That has been discussed in detail in the "Negligent Captain" thread and is out of place here.

I don't believe that Captain Smith told his Officers to launch lifeboats half-empty or not to allow men even if there was room and no women or children to fill that space. It was the concerned Officers' own interpretation; some of us feel that Murdoch did the right thing in allowing men when there was room while Lightoller was unreasonable in not doing so.
But boat No1 with only 12 in is just unacceptable
I think the possible reasons for that have been discussed in previous threads. No point in repeating.
 
Mike Spooner

Mike Spooner

Member
As much No 1 Boat has been discussed we must never take people lives for granted.
Looking at Sam excellent book SS Titanic ACR I can see Sam has done a lot of research on lifeboat numbers leaving Titanic and when picked up by Carpathia.
Those figures on other boats leaving Titanic are pretty awful too. As there is only one boat leaves with a full load of 68 on board No15. This is not a act of God its a human error where someone has to take the blame for. Do I blame the officers? No I don't. It has to be the person who is in charge of the ship.
 
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