Could the Bow Have Risen?


Dec 13, 2016
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I say no, I think some of the testimony of the bow resurfacing was due to the tower debris and center section of the ship.
 

B-rad

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I think the weight would have made it way to heavy. As stated elsewhere, I believe that water entered the rear of the bow section as the ship began to break apart, and as that flooding happened at a much greater rate than the forward area of the bow (much more area opened) the ship appeared to begin to sink on a more even keel, perhaps giving the conception that the ship was righting itself. Just my theory though.o_O
 
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Aaron_2016

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As the ship listed to port the water would concentrate on that side. The last starboard collapsible was being prepared for lowering but they had great difficulty pulling it uphill towards the davits. They felt an explosion inside the ship and the bow took a violent lurch downward. The break up was commencing and the stern was rising, pushing the bow upwards. This is when Mellors and Daly felt the bow rising up. The entire weight of the stern was was compressing down into the middle of the ship, pushing it with such force that the water that was in the forward section tipped back and rushed aft. The air inside rushed forward, and the bow rose.



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I thought the break was between the third and fourth funnel not the second and third?
There has been a very large section of the ship that was found some years ago, and it shows that the break actually occurred in front of and behind the third funnel. The entire middle of the ship was sort of broken off, into a third section it seems. Almost how one would cut a slice of cake.
 
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As the ship listed to port the water would concentrate on that side. The last starboard collapsible was being prepared for lowering but they had great difficulty pulling it uphill towards the davits. They felt an explosion inside the ship and the bow took a violent lurch downward. The break up was commencing and the stern was rising, pushing the bow upwards. This is when Mellors and Daly felt the bow rising up. The entire weight of the stern was was compressing down into the middle of the ship, pushing it with such force that the water that was in the forward section tipped back and rushed aft. The air inside rushed forward, and the bow rose.



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The only issue I have with this is, the wreckage, especially the tower debris would show this. I would think much of the debris from the center section of the ship would have been crush, but it doesn't appear that way. Also, after reading the newspaper article you provided, I have a few issues. I'm not sure who the article is quoted from but, I have some difficulty in understanding how one could see the bow of the ship "pointing downwards as if it had broken off" and then state that the stern was at about 60 degrees. This would put the bow well below the waterline and out of view. Again, along those lines, how could he see the bow bob up and break off, at such a high angle of 60 degrees.
 
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Mar 18, 2008
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I'm not sure who the article is quoted from but, I have some difficulty in understanding how one could see the bow of the ship "pointing downwards as if it had broken off" and then state that the stern was at about 60 degrees. This would put the bow well below the waterline and out of view. Again, along those lines, how could he see the bow bob up and break off, at such a high angle of 60 degrees.

It is from Dillon. And I agree from his position he could not have seen it. He claimed he was with others in the 1st class smoking room for a drink (which was free) so would have been on A Deck, before he went to the poop.
 
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Actually there are 2 so called tower debris, the one having the base of the 3rd funnel (the deck house and the pipes are still attached) and the 2nd tower was the part around the skylight of the reciprocating engine room. We have also the Galley section from F Deck which also does speak against the V Break (and a few other theories).
 
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Dec 13, 2016
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Thank you Ioannis. I'm not certain of Dillon's time frames here but, if he had a drink on A deck before going to the poop, I would tend to believe that at that point the ship wasn't at an angle of 60 degrees, if she did reach that angle at all. I have zero proof and I don't like to speculate much but, I don't think at an angle like that anyone would be inclined to have a drink. Perhaps the angle felt more severe to Dillon.
 
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Ioannis, do you have pictures of the second Tower debris from above the Engine room. I think the only pictures I've seen were of below the third funnel.
 
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Thank you Ioannis. I'm not certain of Dillon's time frames here but, if he had a drink on A deck before going to the poop, I would tend to believe that at that point the ship wasn't at an angle of 60 degrees, if she did reach that angle at all. I have zero proof and I don't like to speculate much but, I don't think at an angle like that anyone would be inclined to have a drink. Perhaps the angle felt more severe to Dillon.

I had a look again, the one where he mentioned the 60 degree angle and that the ship break "like a piece of carrot" is a different one. No mention there about going to the smoking room for a drink (that was in another one). However he not only claimed the poop had a sloop of 60 degrees but also that the musicians were playing on the poop and slid off together with the Captain into the sea but the violinist was able to stay and started to play "Nearer my god to thee".
 
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That's very interesting. I've never heard of that version of events with the band and the captain. It seems like that would put the captain at a different location than he was last allegedly seen. Not sure how much I believe that version of events.
 
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Ah yes, thank you Ioannis. I did see the documentary, just couldn't recall. Its probably been since 2012 last time I saw it.
 
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Regarding Dillon, here is from the other report, no mention about the ship breaking or in which angle it was.

"One fellow while we were on the poop deck said, ‘Go to the first class cabin bar-room.’ We did, the there was a steward in the saloon with two whisky bottles, one in each hand, filling up tumblers on a tray. He said, ‘Go on, lads, drink up; she is going down,’ and we made for the whisky. We got our share.

I said to my pal, Mattie Blake, ‘What do you say, Mattie, there are only two ends – there’s the fore end, which is underneath, and we will take the other end.’

I was for going down into one of the first-class cabins, but Mattie would not let me go.

So we passed along to the promenade deck, on to the well deck, and then to the top deck, and there were Dennis Cochrane, John Bannon, and others of our engine crew."
 
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Here is part of the first one: "When he came on deck the bow of the Titanic was pointing downwards as though it had been broken off from the main part of the bulk, 12 or 14 feet in from the cutwater. He stood on the poop which was at a slope of about 60 degrees, and that was in time to see a second explosion. The bow seemed to bob up and then break down off like a carrot.
Musicians had been playing on the poop, but they and the captain had slid off into the sea, which was strewn with bodies. There was one musician left. He was a violinist, and was playing the air of the hymn: "Nearer, My God, to Thee."
Mr. Dillon said the notes of this music were the last thing he heard before he went off the poop and felt himself going into the icy water headlong, with the engines and machinery buzzing in his ears."
 
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