Crewmen who died right after the collision?

[Sarah S]

Good morning everyone, I hope everyone is well?~

Right after the collision happened there was a ton of water that had started to rush into the area were firemen and trimmers were working. When watertight doors were shut a lot of crewmen who didn’t make it out in time must have died right there and then.
Does anyone know how many and which crewmen perished in the boiler rooms before titanic really took off with the sinking? And was the captain or the officers aware that crewmen had died already (especially Murdoch who is said to have shut those watertight doors..was this a consequence he was concious of?)


Thank you

 

[Seumas]

None of the firemen or trimmers were trapped in the boiler rooms when the WT doors slammed down.

There were ladders in every boiler room leading to the deck above. The men simply climbed up them and awaited orders.

 

[Sarah S]

Oh then I must have misunderstood something.
I had the impression while watching the movie that anyone who didn’t enter the watertight doors in time must have been trapped. Must have been one of the many things the movie got wrong

So there weren’t any deaths among crewmen in the early stages of the sinking due to the water flush?

 

[Sarah S]

This is written on Jonathan Shepherds biography on ET

Shepherd was on duty on the evening of 14 April 1912. After the collision he helped the other engineers rig pumps in boiler room 5 but broke his leg when he slipped into a raised access plate. Leading fireman Frederick Barrett and engineer Herbert Harvey helped him to the pump-room. Shortly afterwards the nearby bulkheads were breached and Shepherd was left helpless as the waters rose around him.

This indicates to me that he died before the ship even sank, but I don’t know what time this could have been.

 

[Seumas]

Oh then I must have misunderstood something.
I had the impression while watching the movie that anyone who didn’t enter the watertight doors in time must have been trapped. Must have been one of the many things the movie got wrong

So there weren’t any deaths among crewmen in the early stages of the sinking due to the water flush?

That was just to build up tension for the viewer. The boiler rooms had ladders that allowed access to the deck above.

In reality, only engineer Hesketh and leading fireman Barrett ducked under the WT door as it closed (which was a bit risky) whilst the rest of the men simply filed up to the ladder and climbed up to await orders. They would soon be back down getting the coal out of the boilers but were again got out of there once the engineers were satisfied the pressure had been lowered enough.

IIRC surviving trimmer George Cavell testified that when the collision dislodged some coal in the bunker he was working in and for a short while he was buried beneath it but managed to claw his way out.

This is written on Jonathan Shepperds biography on ET

Shepherd was on duty on the evening of 14 April 1912. After the collision he helped the other engineers rig pumps in boiler room 5 but broke his leg when he slipped into a raised access plate. Leading fireman Frederick Barrett and engineer Herbert Harvey helped him to the pump-room. Shortly afterwards the nearby bulkheads were breached and Shepherd was left helpless as the waters rose around him.

This indicates to me that he died before the ship even sank, but I don’t know what time this could have been.

The bulkhead did not collapse. Barrett would have been killed if it had.

It was the starboard coal bunker door (holding back water from the breached hull) in BR No. Five that burst open probably around 01:10* and it's become a part of Titanic lore that Harvey and Shepherd were drowned there and then.

Or did they ?

Dr Paul Lee has noticed a few flaws in this oft told story that you can read and decide for yourself here (about a quarter down the page under the heading Boiler Room 5):

http://www.paullee.com/titanic/belowdecks.php

I believed for years that Shepherd and Harvey both drowned in Boiler Room No. Five but today I'm not so sure.

*Sam Halpern's timeline.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I had the impression while watching the movie that anyone who didn’t enter the watertight doors in time must have been trapped. Must have been one of the many things the movie got wrong

I think many people, mostly those with only casual or peripheral interest in the Titanic, have believed for years that many crew members were trapped in boiler and engine rooms when the WTDs came down. I believe that impression was largely created by the 1953 Hollywood film Titanic (The Barbara Stanwyck, Clifford Webb one) which showed several crewmen running towards the doors when they slammed shut, thus "trapping them". It has been 35 years since I last saw that film but if my memory serves me right, they show the WTD closing sideways in that film.

I believed for years that Shepherd and Harvey both drowned in Boiler Room No. Five but today I'm not so sure

I believed that too till a few years ago but now, like you, am not so sure. Just for the sake of argument though, if Harvey had help from a couple of other crew members, what route could they have taken to try and get Shepherd to safety?