Criticism of Titanic's Officers

[Erik Wood]

This is getting to the point of comical, that is to include my own overly long winded post. We are all arguing about who has the right to say with certainty how someone should have acted and why based on our own experience.

While this is all well and good, (and sailors around every bar in the world do it daily) I don't think (as I alluded in my above post) that we are doing ourselves or the memory of those men any justice by condemning them for actions that none of where there to see and fewer of us can understand.

I have said this time and again, a sailor is a sailor is a sailor is a sailor. Although we may come from different parts of the world and sail under different flags, not one of us was trained in 1912. Although we may hold masters licenses, traveled the same waters hundreds of times, none of us where there on April 14th 1912 so IMO none us can really say what went wrong or right. We are all making assumptions based off second and third hand information that was gained days and sometimes months after the incident and as Parks said, the experience of the witness is unique to there actions, and there perspective. Parks and I can see the same thing, but view it two different ways.

I think we need to stop the posturing and just discuss Titanic. I am guilty of it, and now I will stop it.

 

[Dennis Smith]

Hi Everybody,
I`m sorry if my post has annoyed/upset anyone, especially you Tom. Of course everyone has the right to have their own thoughts about what happened that night all those years ago in the freezing North Atlantic. I suppose the problem is that everyone here is so passionate about the big T that emotions are bound to well over occasionally.

I apologise unreservedly if I have annoyed anyone -- SORRY

Best Wishes and Rgds

Dennis

 

[David Haisman]

Parks Stephenson,

You must feel better now you've got that off of your chest and move on by all means.
Just remember what I said.
Stick to the things that you know best and venture out into someone elses territory, and you run the risk of dropping ''clangers''


Best wishes ,
David

 

[Inger Sheil]

Yes, I think that moving on - as several posters have indicated they wish to do - is a good idea.

If this doesn't happen, then the thread will be closed.

 

[Susan Leighton]

The intent of my post is that an educated person can develop an opinion based on the facts and the forensic evidence. Obviously, courts and jurors do it every day. What is insulting is to presume that only an experienced mariner is capable of critical thinking regarding Titanic's navigation and manuevers. Dave also inferred that I have no experience with ships...another presumption on his part. Although I don't post my resume on the internet, I am a graduate of The Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program--submarines--not surface ships, but I do think that qualifies me to express an opinion.
-Susan Y. Leighton

 

[Mary S. Lynn]

This is your non-expert speaking. What an interesting thread, and what good ideas/facts/opinions are being expressed! I look at these discussions as learning tools for me, and respect all of these posters who have knowledge and experience far above my own, no matter what position is taken. It's a pleasure for me to "navigate" (pun intended) through different points of view, and I do appreciate and admire expertise. I was involved in a ship's sinking a few years ago (although safely ashore) and can only offer my opinion as a paid pleasure passenger. I will never be an expert on seamanship, but I do enjoy and appreciate the knowledge, experience, and opinions on this Board. Many thanks to all of you, and please feel free to by-pass this interrupting post.

 

[Kyrila Scully]

Parks, you're right, it was premature. Wishful thinking, I guess. It seems to me that the message board should be a place to relax and have a great time bonding with people who share similar interests in a congenial atmosphere that would - dare I say it again - honor the memories of those we come to discuss. A heated atmosphere is counter-productive to learning and research, and highly stressful to observe. I do absolutely concur with Capt. Erik's posts of 4 August, and I don't think he intends any disrespect to inexperienced posters when he says what's on his heart and mind, and should not be taken as such. But others have posted some interesting observations as well, such as Parks. I'm one of the individuals who likes to see what everyone has to say in order to see The Big Picture. It's sometimes a dangerous thing to be an armchair pundit, but if we can do so with the foresight of learning for the purpose of avoiding future problems, so much the better.

Kyrila

 

[Barbara Personett]

As a cruiser of 6 ship lines and 10 ships (about to be 11)one thing has always stood out. Before any of these ships leave the dock EVERYONE is requested to go to their assigned lifeboat station for a drill.I know the Titanic disaster took a lot of lives; however, maybe more lives have been saved over the years due to that disaster.

Barbara

 

[David Haisman]

Susan Leighton

Are you referring to me regarding presumptions and your lack of experience with ships?
If so, I would be obliged if you would get back to me to clarify that position.

When my name is mentioned, it's a guarantee that I'll get back to you and put your mind at rest.

Best Wishes,

David Haisman

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I know the Titanic disaster took a lot of lives; however, maybe more lives have been saved over the years due to that disaster. <<

Good point. It's a brutal way to learn the lessons, but the sad reality is that a lot of the regulations on the books today were written in blood.

 

[Tom Pappas]

The impression many people have is that the changes in lifeboat standards and wireless requirements, and the formation of the International Ice Patrol precipitated by Titanic have effectively safeguarded people from the corresponding hazards for all time.

Lusitania and Empress of Ireland both sank with lifeboats for all on board, and both with appalling casualties; Morro Castle and Yarmouth Castle were both in radio contact with rescue vessels, both with the loss of hundreds of lives; Hans Hedtoft and Ketchican struck icebergs and sank after getting the latest ice data from the IIP.

 

[Barbara Personett]

Tom-There are times when a lifeboat or wireless communication cannot protect or save a ship from hazard. The Lusitania was hit by a torpedo and went down in 20 minutes. That was very little time to save anyone.

 

[Erik Wood]

Tom said: The impression many people have is that the changes in lifeboat standards and wireless requirements, and the formation of the International Ice Patrol precipitated by Titanic have effectively safeguarded people from the corresponding hazards for all time.

This paragraph and the one to follow it, to me have a lot of truth in it. Passenger evcuation is probably more dangerous today that it was 90 years ago, not because of equipment but because of volume. A loss of life at sea is apalling but is also a fact of life. Men and women die daily on the seas of the world, under every flag and in all conditions, that is just the nature of the industry.

There is no way to safeguard sea or air travel from all dangers. IIP helps but it doesn't solve the problem. Radar, helps but as the Andrea Doria and the Stockholm and the thousands of other ships since then have found out, it is only as good as the person using it. Whenever you have a human in command, no matter how skilled and educated bad things will happen. I am not sure that any invention since the creation of ocean travel has made it more safe. Just less likely of a mass disaster. Inventions help the mind, but when mother nature comes calling, she will take what she wants and leave what she wants, and no amount of invention or industry can protect us from it.

 

[Tom Pappas]

Barbara -

My point precisely.

Erik -

My point precisely.