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D Deck Flooding Detail?

Discussion in 'Collision / Sinking Theories' started by Yourj Benig, May 21, 2012.

  1. Yourj Benig

    Yourj Benig Member

    When did the D- deck forward cabins and D- deck Grand Staircase floods.........

    I'm curious about the time when the D - deck Staircase had been flooded....... Do the Lifeboat 13 and 15 had already gone when this part of the ship floods...???
     
  2. Liam webster

    Liam webster Member

    Theres a forum on here which is already trying to decipher just how and when the Grand Staircase flooded before the Dome imploded. It is known that the Grand staircase was basically destroyed and ripped apart during the sinking right down to as far as C Deck, I believe that the base of D Deck is in a bit better shape which implies that water may already have been flooding this area when the Grand staircase was destroyed.

    Also - as a number of survivors say they witnessed a sudden surge of third class running onto deck from the Grand Staircase just before 'The Wave' hit - we have to assume that most of the Grand Staircase was still intact. I believe the best way for third class to have found their way up to the boat deck from the forward Grand Staircase would have been if they had found their way up through the D-Deck kitchens and into the Dining Saloon and finally up the Grand stairs - like we see in a Night to Remember? Although I must admit I am not very good with following the deck plans so someone who is better with this may be able to answer that.

    However if this is the case it would imply that D Deck Dining Room was only just starting to flood, along with the reception and Grand Staircase just before the Dome imploded at roughly 2.15-2.17? This would make sense time wise as - a) a surge of third class find their way to deck around 2.10-2.15, forced upwards as E-Deck starts flooding into D-Deck - B) when the fatal wave hits and the dome implode's, the force of the water would have crashed down through roughly three decks, destroying the Grand Staircase in the process - making it a much more traumatic and terrifying ordeal than what we see in Cameron's Titanic. Of course water was probably already running into the staircase through the C and B Deck Forward cabin corridors and then surely the A deck promenade entrances as well, meaning it was probably pouring down the staircase and into D-Deck - It would have been the implosion which destroyed the staircase though. God help anyone still around at that time.

    This is what I have always picked up on from descriptions of the wreck and survivor accounts from the boat deck (I have never come across one which describes the flooding of the staircase), I could be wrong though.
     
  3. TimTurner

    TimTurner Member

    Scotland Road runs right next to the Grand Staircase on E Deck. It's separated by a door which is only supposed to be open in port, but if it was opened, then that would be a natural access point. There's also a narrower hall on the other side which has doors opening into 3rd class.
     
  4. Liam webster

    Liam webster Member

    I think this also works then as I am under the impression the staff who would have worked in the 1st Class Dining Room kitchens also could get to them through Scotland Road?

    Apart from this and the entrances you have mentioned I am not certain how else the third class passengers seen exiting through the grand Staircase would be able to get there?

    Unless there was a way to get through from the third class dining saloon into the F Deck area with the Turkish Baths and Swimming Pool? But that must surely have been long under water by 2am?
     
  5. Eric30

    Eric30 Member

    Flooded?

    IMHO, the G-S on D-Deck was already completely flooded by the time the dome collapsed. The first class entrance door on starboard was wide open on officer demand, and was found still open in 1985. We can imagine the huge amount of water making her way by this door. The water reach it circa 1h40 - 45 if I remember:confused: .

    Its let enough time to flood the G-S, the entrance hall, and a big part of the dining saloon.
     
  6. Liam webster

    Liam webster Member

    Hmmm, fair point. In that case you may be right and water may have been flooding the D-deck reception by 1.45 - maybe even earlier.

    On further research I have discovered that at least three first class passengers mention the cabins flooding in E-Deck before they left the ship. These are Miss Laura Francatelli, Emilie Kreuchen and Dorothy Gibson.

    Miss Laura Francatelli wrote in a letter that when she abandoned her cabin, E36, water was already on the deck "coming along the corridor".

    Eimilie Kreuchen mentioned awakening to discover the corridor flooding and was informed the baggage room was filled with water. She went to warn Miss Allen and was told not to worry and go back to bed. On returning to her cabin she found it "flooded." - The exact location for her cabin is unknown, although E10 has been suggested as a possibility. It must have been in the forward section of E-Deck at any rate.

    Dorothy Gibson also reported saying that she saw water on the stairs below the Grand Staircase as she and her mother made their way to the Boats. This would also imply it was the steps of E-Deck. As both Dorothy Gibson and Francatelli left in two of the earliest lifeboats to leave the ship we can assume that E-deck was already starting to flood before Dorothy escaped in boat 7 at 12.45. (We can assume that the flooding was earlier as passengers started making their way to the boat decks around 12.15 in some cases)

    According to his statement, Lightoller sent Alfred Nichols below to open the gangway doors - along with six other men. They were never seen again. The order was given whilst they were working on boat six, sometime between 12.50- 1.10.

    By this time E-Deck must have been unaccessible, if we can trust the passenger accounts. So there is no chance he would have tried the E-Deck gangway doors.

    The question then is did he really open 1 of the 4 D-Deck gangway doors? Or did he abandon opening these doors as they were so close to the waterline? Maybe seeing the raising waterline outside the ship once they opened it and the flooding stairs below them, he and the other men abandoned the work at these gangway doors and headed towards the stern to open more at the rear of the ship. Opening the doors required much effort and on a ship listing to the bow and to port it was probably no easy task.

    Maybe the water from below had even started to slowly flood into the D-Deck grand staircase as they were working on the first gangway door, forcing them to retreat. Its possible the deck below had been flooding for 45 mins - 1 hour going by the survivor accounts, who knows.

    On the other side of the coin I have read some theories that suggest the D-Deck gangway door may have just burst open as the ship crashed into the seabed below, however this means the grilles behind it would have had to spring open as well. This could perhaps be a more believable scenario if the same thing had happened to any of the other 4 doors.

    And of course this still doesn't solve when and where the third class passengers managed to get into the Grand Staircase just before the final plunge - especially if E-Deck and D-Deck flooded so early.

    I wonder just how high the water did get in the Grand Staircase before the Dome implosion? The damage done to the staircase seems to suggest a great deal of force was required to rip the entire staircase apart, down to C-Deck at least.
     
  7. Eric30

    Eric30 Member

    Regarding the kind of evidences on the seaflor and survivors accounts, I think its not crazy to think that GS on D-Deck was completely floaded, and even C, B decks. If we think about it, the wave who crushed the staircase was not a force 10 wave, the water was already on the main deck, which mean that the B and C deck were already far away below the surface.

    I my opinion, th wave only crushed the dome (of course) and the top of the staircase. Then, we have to think about the wonderfull dive of the bow, and there again it is not foolish to think that some damaged pieces finally broke apart. Then, there is the impact. The bow is compressed, for exemple, the cargo #1 hatch is sent meters ahead due to the water "evicted" of the wreck. J.Cameron saw bent, twisted walls and pillars in the bottom of the staircase. We can imagine it finished the job to weak the structure.

    Another suposition: Pictures taken of the bottom show another evidences: the obvious fast decaying of the first decks in comparison with the below ones. For exemples, the cabins on A deck only show us amount of debris, almost beyond recognition. Instead, on D-Deck, J.Cameron found cabins with beds and furnitures still in place. It is the same thing for the wood, almost nothing remain on the huge opening were the clock and A Deck staircase were, and instead, the wood is still in correct condition in the entrance hall.

    May be it is just this amount of facts: the staircase was weakened in its top level by the wave, then weakened in its structure by the impact, and then time and micro organisms made a good meal, starting from top to bottom. :confused:
     
  8. Charles

    Charles Member

    Well Yourj , to answer your question, I know some facts about this room on the night of the sinking. I know that the entrance door (I don't know which side) was opened that night, and also that the propellers (I have to use this sorry) went out of the water at the time of the boat deck wave, and the bow slipped beneath the surface at about 1:30 , so my guess is probably around 1:40-1:50ish. My theory is that the water came through the door early in the sinking, and instead of flooding the reception room, it would have went down the forward first class corridor , down the stairwell to the Squash Court, and when the bow was almost flooded, the water would have reached the elevators and the grand staircase on the D-Deck landing, and if this is correct, then this would mean the first class dining room , adjoining to the room , would have began to flood as well. But I could be wrong , telling that the water would've flooded pretty rapidly forward of the reception area if this is the scenario. So this is my theory.
     
  9. Charles

    Charles Member

    Ok , the team of the work in progress video game "Titanic: Honor and Glory" has recently posted a video on their Tumblr blog of the flooding of the reception room on D Deck , and they say it was at 2 AM. Is this true , and any other details?

    Thanks ,
    Charles
     
  10. If you ask me that is much too late. When boat No. 4 was lowered the water was staring to enter the ship though open portholes on B Deck as Mrs Ryerson said.
     
  11. By the time the sea reached the door, the water was already up to D Deck inside. The Squash Court was already flooding after midnight.
     
  12. Charles

    Charles Member

    But then your saying the lifeboats were still being lowered when the roof boats A and B were washed from the roof , and that is not the case , but I do get your point of the court flooded. Except one more thing , what about the bow , was it still flooding when the water entering through the D Deck Reception?

    https://youtu.be/ey6XGv8ddTI This is the video by the way if you wanted to know what I was asking before.

    So, do we have an exact time? Wait, I was just wondering , was the bow almost underwater? And , were the lifeboats still being lowered at the time of the reception flooding?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2015
  13. Charles

    Charles Member

    《believe that the base of D Deck is in a bit better shape which implies that water may already have been flooding this area when the Grand staircase was destroyed》

    According to some of the officers, Captain Smith asked one of the bostwains mates to open the d deck gangway on the port side, which, at 1:50, D Deck flooded, soon after the bow balcony on B Deck became overflow with water. By the time the water reached the dome, by all means, it was not just flooding d deck.

    1) The Open D Deck Door was already underwater

    2) Bow flooded at 1:30 while D Deck flooded at 1:50, and at 2:10 the dome imploded

    3) I'm assuming it must've been flooding the A Deck, with the water about at the half landing on the staircase as the dome collapsed.

    4: Also, D Deck had white carved plaster, while the rest of the landings were decorated with wood.

    By all these means, E Deck was probably also destroyed.
     
  14. The dome collapsed after funnel 1 fell, which happened at 2:17. That is later than you expected.
     
  15. Do you have a source for this? Can you post it here?
     
  16. I do not think there is any time for when the funnel fall.
    There is some disagreement about the dome "collapsing". The weather cover was protecting the dome and it more about the time it got under the water surface when it might have been destroyed.
     
  17. Collapsibles A & B floated off at 2:15 A.M.. That was before funnel 1 fell. That's for sure. 2:17 seems to be acceptable.
     
  18. Says who? What is the primary source for that?
     
  19. That is no primary source! The timing there is an estimated time as it is in my own list and sure anyone else.

    With all respect I disagree with several of their points in their launch order. (I have published a series about the lifeboats myself including the launching and so know many of the accounts.)
     
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