Damage to Both Sides - Collision - Break up - Sea Floor?

Does anyone know what caused the large openings on the sides of the bow?



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Landing on the sea floor is one theory, but has any other wreck suffered that kind of damage by landing on the seabed? The impact I understand was so gentle that the contents inside were not greatly disturbed e.g. Windows are intact, plates are still neatly stacked in the cupboard, and a cigar case is sitting casually on a fire mantel. Is it possible that the sides burst open during the descent? If striking the sea floor managed to buckle open the sides, then could the 'grounding' over the ice cause the same effect on the surface and fracture the sides open? Could an internal expulsion of compressed air or water burst the sides open?

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The undamaged items you list do not necessarily suggest a gentle landing. I am not even sure how a grounding would produce similar damage as a ship would incur from slamming nose fist into the sea bed with a the momentum from the weight of everything behind pushing it into the sea bed before landing. Look at Britannic, the Bow is crushed because of shallowness of the water it sank in and I would think that ship endured less catastrophic damage from it's decent than titanic. But I do not think you can compare the damage of a ship that was already structurally unstable from the sinking and breakup to perform the same as an undamaged ship gliding over ice.
 
The Britannic had her starboard bow blown and severely fractured when she struck the mine and crashed into the seabed almost nose down resulting in her bow almost breaking off as the enormous damage and the weight of the intact ship drove her bow into the seabed at a sharp angle. The Titanic and other ships that sank I believe are quite a different matter. The damage to her port and starboard sides appear as if something inside has burst out, one would imagine that the shockwave of a hard slam against the sea floor would have smashed many windows and caused chaos inside, but we don't see that in the forward bow. I believe if the bursting open of her sides was caused by the impact with the sea floor then the iceberg damage that can be seen on the starboard bow should be heavily scrutinized because the 'alleged' iceberg damage could easily have occurred when she struck the bow and the series of small openings would have been greatly affected by a hard slam into the seabed. Perhaps when the ship reached a certain depth the sides burst open due to the pressure of the water and compressed air inside, similar to the implosion of the stern but on a much smaller scale with only the sides bursting open, and when she struck the seabed the sides opened a bit more.


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Some old documentaries suggested the tear on the wreck's Starboard Side was a air pocket within the bow that ruptured the hull either during the sinking or during the descent. This idea since been dropped.
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Taken from "Titanic: Answers from the Abyss" by Home Run Pictures 0:16 - 0:22
 
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Some old documentaries suggested the tear on the wreck's Starboard Side was a air pocket within the bow that ruptured the hull either during the sinking or during the descent.

I never understand that suggestion.
It's known that it was created when it hit the ocean bottom (it was even mentioned in 1987) as the bow pushed forward and to the the side. On the starboard side it created the hole while on the port side there is a 90" bend in the hull but the plates are not broken.
 
The Britannic had her starboard bow blown and severely fractured when she struck the mine and crashed into the seabed almost nose down resulting in her bow almost breaking off as the enormous damage and the weight of the intact ship drove her bow into the seabed at a sharp angle. The Titanic and other ships that sank I believe are quite a different matter. The damage to her port and starboard sides appear as if something inside has burst out, one would imagine that the shockwave of a hard slam against the sea floor would have smashed many windows and caused chaos inside, but we don't see that in the forward bow. I believe if the bursting open of her sides was caused by the impact with the sea floor then the iceberg damage that can be seen on the starboard bow should be heavily scrutinized because the 'alleged' iceberg damage could easily have occurred when she struck the bow and the series of small openings would have been greatly affected by a hard slam into the seabed. Perhaps when the ship reached a certain depth the sides burst open due to the pressure of the water and compressed air inside, similar to the implosion of the stern but on a much smaller scale with only the sides bursting open, and when she struck the seabed the sides opened a bit more.


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My point was that as crushed as Britannics bow is, there is very little damage aft of the damage caused by the explosion or the crushing of bow. Also, with everything the Titanic endured prior to her reaching her resting spot, it is odd that some things are still in place once she reached the bottom? I am not entirely positive on the physics, but perhaps on and object that in water and 2.5 miles down would repond differently as far as how far the damage would travel. Perhaps it was only localized damage but on observing the wreck, it appears that there is indeed other damage that I assume was a result of its landing in the sea bed. I think you are perhaps making too many assumptions on what you think should be damaged from impact.
 
If there was air still inside the bow then it would support the Thayer/Skidmore drawing of the bow resurfacing after the breakup. Maybe if the bow did resurface that could sexplain why survivors explained the ship taking the final plunge at different angles? Maybe some mistakenly thought that the bow was the stern?
 
That's exactly what I think. Someone could witness the stern rise up and later accidentally call it the bow.
But if the bow DID rise back up, with it being nearly pitch black darkness, then some survivors could have seen the actual bow and thought it was the stern.
 
If there was air still inside the bow then it would support the Thayer/Skidmore drawing of the bow resurfacing after the breakup. Maybe if the bow did resurface that could sexplain why survivors explained the ship taking the final plunge at different angles? Maybe some mistakenly thought that the bow was the stern?
I do not entertain the possibility of the bow rising back up. I have read many accounts of the sinking and as said by other board members, it is often simply a confusion of terms. If you even try to apply the notion to the few survivors who used the term bow in their accounts, it doesn't even make sense and defies the laws if physics. I just regard it as a ridiculous notion taken from an obviously flawed wording and some just taking it and running with it despite the improbability.
 
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I do not entertain the the bow resurfacing theory. I have read many of the survivor accounts and mormst can

I do not entertain the possibility of the bow rising back up. I have read many accounts of the sinking and as said by other board members, it is often simply a confusion of terms. If you even try to apply the notion to the few survivors who used the term bow in their accounts, it doesn't even make sense and defies the laws if physics. I just regard it as a ridiculous notion taken from a obviously flawed wording by and some just taking it and running with it despite the improbably.
As the ship turned to port to avoid the iceberg, the iceberg would have struck just aft of the cargo areas. If it would have struck at the very front of the starboard bow then the iceberg would have tore more deeply into the hull around midship. If that is the case then the cargo areas would have not received any damage leaving the possibility that the forward cargo areas did not fully flood before the break up. Would it then be possible that the bow rose up before finally going under? I think it does. Nobody on this forum was there on titanic when it sank so we have to base our knowledge on survivor accounts and ideas of what happened. There are so many things we still don't know. If we did know everything then I doubt there would be a forum.
 
But at the rate in which the bow sank, the foward sections would still have flooded in that 2 hours and 38 minutes in a scenario where the first two compartments were not opened. And even if the first couple of sections had not flooded, there still wouldn't be enough buoyancy in the bow to allow it to pop back up. It's physically impossible.
 
Any suggestions for the "I believe the bow did / didn't rise up" should be left for the other forum. we don't need this idea being spread any further!

Back to Topic!

The opening is simply the result of the ship creasing as she hit the floor.
Titanic Wreck Side View.jpg

As seen from the crude diagram above, the Bow is clearly bent far forward than it should be, and the result was the sides bent out at the weakest point (I like to think the reason for this is the hull from the forepeak to Boiler Room 6 was ripped out BUT I know this clearly didn't happen).
 
The drawing by Millerpsc (above) would be accurate if the conventional story of turning left (starboard helm in 1912) to dodge the iceberg were true. But, even cursory analysis shows that the impact in the drawing does not match the actual damage as reported by the majority of survivors.

Flooding from damage was confirmed in the peak tank (not forepeak) and the first three holds. Members of the "black gang" living above hold #1 were seen attempting to bring their gear up to dryer decks as their berthing areas filled with water. Slow ingress was reported in boiler room #6 by Beauchamp and corroborated by Barrett. There was apparently even slower ingress in #4. The actions reported by Barrett in boiler room #5 show it remained dry and functional for more than an hour after impact.

If Millerspc's drawing of the interaction of berg and ship, then we would not expect any flooding of the peak tank or holds #1 and #2. They would have been inside the ship's maneuvering circle and out of harm's way. Newton's laws governing the impact would have increased the rotation ot the bow to its left causing the whole starboard side of the ship to bump and grind along the berg. There should be reported damage for nearly 3/4ths the length of the hull (probably including the starboard wing propeller), which did not happen. So, physics, the way ships turn, and the physical damage to Titanic all rule out the mythical left turn to avoid the iceberg. Conventional wisdom cannot be true.

The final nails in the coffin of the conventional story comes from the lookouts, Fleet and Lee, in the crow's nest. They said Titanic steamed straight at the fatal berg. Even Fleet's famous (if possibly apocryphal) words, "Iceberg right ahead!" indicate a straight-on approach. This means the ship was not turning to port (starboard helm) nor to starboard (port helm) during the final seconds as the bow closed on the ice.

Yet, we have two bridge team survivors who claimed the ship did turn to port (starboard helm) just before impact. Boxhall only hinted at this, but quartermaster Hichens at the wheel said it was a two-point turn to the left which means a sizable 22.5 degrees. The advance & transfer characteristics of an Olympic-class vessel (tested with Olympic after Titanic sank) are such that for a two-point turn to have been accomplished, the iceberg would have been safely on the port side to begin with. That is, First officer Murdoch turned left for an object that otherwise would have passed close aboard -- but probably safely -- Titanic's port side. To steal a phrase from Second Officer Lightoller, "Not damned likely."

Personally, I believe that everyone told the truth and there is no contradiction of Boxhall/Hichens by Fleet/Lee. It's all a matter of time. The two-point turn to the left under starboard helm was made and the ship steadied on its new course. This is evident by Hichens remembering the exact two points of the turn. He would not have cared how many degrees the bow swung during an emergency. However, he would have had to be very precise in his reading of the compass to make a turn of exactly two points to port. Such a turn that night would have been necessary to avoid ice. There was plenty ahead of the ship. But, it was not likely a turn to avoid any specific iceberg. Hichens steadied Titanic on its new course which the lookouts noticed was pointed toward the deadly iceberg.

If the above paragraph is reasonably accurate, then we have a major change in the Titanic canon. It has been believed that Captain Smith was dozing "just inside" while his ship went blundering into an ice field. Yet, the logical conclusion of the testimonies of Boxhall, Hichens, Fleet, and Lee say otherwise. The two-point turn was a course change, not an emergency maneuver. And, only Captain Smith had the authority to order the course changed. Murdoch certainly could dodge danger, but he was not empowered to change the course. This means that Captain Smith unwittingly ordered a course change which Boxhall and Hichens performed just as an iceberg happened to be about two points off the port bow. It wasn't barratry, just bad luck. Captain Smith was trying to avoid the ice field across his path and chose the wrong moment to change course.

Quartermaster Olliver's testimony confirms Murdoch's freedom to act in an emergency. Also a surviving member of the bridge team, Olliver said that just as the ship took the ice Murdoch yelled, "hard a-port" which in 1912 meant to turn the ship to its right, or starboard. This was the correct order under the circumstances. By applying port helm Murdoch would have swung the vulnerable starboard side and wing propeller outward, away from the berg and possible damage. The bow was already involved in the accident, so there was no longer any reason to protect areas already receiving damage.
On the poop, quartermaster Rowe testified that the ship was apparently under port helm as the berg passed safely even if close aboard his location. Afterward, the bridge watch congregated on the starboard bridge wing to catch sight of the iceberg astern. This is correct for a ship that turned to its right around an object. The berg was now off the starboard quarter and could only be seen from the starboard bridge wing.

Finally, we know Titanic was heading west -- actually a bit south of west -- when it came upon the iceberg. Yet, the bow swung to the north for some reason and remains facing in a northerly direction. This is diametrically opposite to the sharp left turn toward the south that would have resulted from the conventional version of the accident. If the ship had been under starboard helm and turning left, impact would have increased that turn and the ship would ultimately have slid to a stop facing nearly south. It does not. Currents and winds have been used to explain Titanic's northerly orientation, but the simplest explanation is that the ship turned to its right -- not its left -- during and immediately after impact. It remained facing northward as it sank.

-- David G. Brown


PS -- If you believe the stern section stuck upward into the night sky, the physics which govern buoyancy require the bow to have re-surfaced briefly. Otherwise, the stern would have disappeared like a stone dropped in a pool. The fact that Titanic floated -- intact or broken -- is proof of that. More anon.
 
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