Damage to the ship's engines?

[Oliver K]

Hello, since the start of urgency after spotting the iceberg was very high, the engine room staff were called to put the engine in reverse, could the reverse procedure of been carried out so fast that damage occurred to the engines?

For instance, before reversing, the valves for the Turbine must be closed so that all exhaust steam goes directly to the condensers, the valves were large and steam driven, it can take upwards of 20 minutes to an hour (depending on size) to close or open a large water valve according to my dad who used to work with large valves.

Could the turbine of actually ran in reverse? I don't know much about Reaction Turbines but if the turbine was running in reverse and damaging itself, that could explain why the steering was so slow.


According to the article on "Cold Starting Titanic" the ship is perfectly capable of running in reverse albeit with a slight vibration from unbalanced screws, could this of been the vibration felt by the passengers? I think the iceberg would of glided along the side of the ship and not caused any vibration.

I also think the pistons in the main engines started getting off-balanced and contacting the top of the cylinder while it was spinning down, causing similar effects to the Judder you feel in an automobile when you stop the engine by turning the key.

Word's on this theory will be appreciated.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Hello, since the start of urgency after spotting the iceberg was very high, the engine room staff were called to put the engine in reverse,

From Dillon and Scott who were down in the engine room (Dillon in the reciprocating engine room and Scott in the turbine engine room) we know that the order they received was stop. This is confirmed by Barrett in BR 6 as well by Hichens at the wheel.

The engines did went into reserve but only for a very short time and only slow astern.

 

[Kas01]

I forget who exactly posted this, but one of the members here said something to the effect that there are always vibrations aboard a ship, regardless of the powerplant. It wasn't the vibrations that caused most passengers to notice that something was off, it was the absence of such vibrations.

Second, with regards to the turbine, I believe that Halpern's site shows that the centerline screw had no reversing capability, seeing as Titanic was a compound-expansion ship and the centerline screw was using steam from the second/third expansion.

Third, it's damn hard to steer a Sunfish without water flowing over the rudder. To say nothing of steering an Olympic-class liner.

I'd go with the berg itself causing the vibrations.

 

[Ioannis Georgiou]

Yes the turbine was only able to go forward and was stopped when the ship was going in reserve.

 

[Mike Spooner]

The turbine was not designed to run in reverse and only used when the triple expansion engines reach 50rpm. I would of thought it be wise to close the change over valves if should the triple engines reach 50rpm in reverse as the turbine will only driven again.

 

[coal eater]

this brings question,did olympic turbine was not reversable aswell?

titanic engines had to go slow down then stop then go reverse,going from full ahead straight to ful astern could eventually cause damage to crankshafts but not engine itself.at olympic career in later time there as some crankshaft cracks because of its age and time of use,evrything has its own "lifetime" ....

another interessing is that on titanic wreck one of engine cylinders is ripped apart,was it caused by break up and list to port/starboard? would engine during breakup give sush thing? where are other engine cylinders that broke off from sinking ship? an last question, do we have any photograph of crankshaft wreck located o wreck? it should show what engine configuration was,if the cylinder got blown apart there had to be trapped air in it?

 

[Kas01]

Could have been totally intact from the breakup but trust me, that thing was on the inside of 26,000 tons of metal and hit the ocean floor at over 25 miles per hour. The fact that even one of them is still in the wreckage is a Goddamn miracle.

 

[coal eater]

but tthere was photo of one or two broken off cylinders and piece of crankshaft just cant find photo of both

 

[Aaron_2016]

but tthere was photo of one or two broken off cylinders and piece of crankshaft just cant find photo of both

Here are a number of accounts that indicate what may have happened.


Harold Bride
"The Captain told us we had been struck amidships, or just aft of amidships." (damage to engine room?)

Mr. Woolner
"We felt it under the smoking room." (damage to engine room?)

Fred Scott
"I felt a shock and I thought it was something in the main engine room which had gone wrong." (damage to engine room?)

Mr. C. Andrews
"I thought something might have gone wrong with the engines."

Mr. Ray
"I thought something had gone wrong in the engine room."

Mr. Beesley
"There came what seemed to me nothing more than an extra heave of the engines"

Mrs. Collyer
"We saw a stoker come climbing up from below. He stopped a few feet away from us. All the fingers of one hand had been cut off. Blood was running from the stumps and blood was splattering over his face and over his clothes. The red marks showed very clearly against the coal dust with which he was covered. I went over and spoke to him. I asked him if there was any danger. ‘Danger’, he screamed at the top of his voice. ‘I should just say so. It’s hell down below, look at me. The boat will sink like a stone in ten minutes.’ He staggered away and lay down fainting on a coil of rope. At this moment I got my first grip of fear, awful sickening fear. That poor man with his bleeding hand and his speckled face brought up a picture of smashed engines and mangled human bodies. (damage to engine room?)



Here is a low pressure engine cylinder that possibly fell out when she listed heavily to port and everything not bolted down would crash through her side.


Mr. Keene
"It appeared to us that when the ship had listed heavily to port the engines fell out and crashed through the side. The second funnel broke off, and killed a number of people in its fall.....One of the engineers got horribly jammed when the doors in the bullkheads were closed. His injuries were terrible, and, as there was no chance of releasing him, he implored that he might be shot to be put out of his misery. This I have been told was done."

.

 

[Mike Spooner]

I can assure you reverse the engine was no problem in the design. How long it took from 75rpm is another question? I see figure of 30 second been quoted before going into reverse! As the quote figure from seeing the iceberg before contact is 37 second!
As on the SS Shieldhall with triple expansion engines running at 100rpm on a much smaller scale in size than Titanic had. It only took seconds to reverse the engines!

 

[Rob Lawes]

The Collyer tale is an interesting one but is there any indication where they were standing when this wounded stoker came up? Were they on the boat deck? In the second class accom areas? Also, where had this stoker been working? Which boiler room? Are there any other reports about this man? It seems pretty strange that a man with such a terrrible wound to his hand would not have been placed in a boat?

 

[IvanZagric1990]

It appeared to us that when the ship had listed heavily to port the engines fell out and crashed through the side

The reversing gear rods seem to be bent downwards. I think that they speak for themselves in which direction LP cylinders fell out.

 

[Oliver K]

Here are a number of accounts that indicate what may have happened.


Harold Bride
"The Captain told us we had been struck amidships, or just aft of amidships." (damage to engine room?)

Mr. Woolner
"We felt it under the smoking room." (damage to engine room?)

Fred Scott
"I felt a shock and I thought it was something in the main engine room which had gone wrong." (damage to engine room?)

Mr. C. Andrews
"I thought something might have gone wrong with the engines."

Mr. Ray
"I thought something had gone wrong in the engine room."

Mr. Beesley
"There came what seemed to me nothing more than an extra heave of the engines"

Mrs. Collyer
"We saw a stoker come climbing up from below. He stopped a few feet away from us. All the fingers of one hand had been cut off. Blood was running from the stumps and blood was splattering over his face and over his clothes. The red marks showed very clearly against the coal dust with which he was covered. I went over and spoke to him. I asked him if there was any danger. ‘Danger’, he screamed at the top of his voice. ‘I should just say so. It’s hell down below, look at me. The boat will sink like a stone in ten minutes.’ He staggered away and lay down fainting on a coil of rope. At this moment I got my first grip of fear, awful sickening fear. That poor man with his bleeding hand and his speckled face brought up a picture of smashed engines and mangled human bodies. (damage to engine room?)



Here is a low pressure engine cylinder that possibly fell out when she listed heavily to port and everything not bolted down would crash through her side.


Mr. Keene
"It appeared to us that when the ship had listed heavily to port the engines fell out and crashed through the side. The second funnel broke off, and killed a number of people in its fall.....One of the engineers got horribly jammed when the doors in the bullkheads were closed. His injuries were terrible, and, as there was no chance of releasing him, he implored that he might be shot to be put out of his misery. This I have been told was done."


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This is all very interesting, I think that stoker may of got his fingers trapped in a watertight or maybe one of the dampers or something.

The smoking room is above the turbine engine room (The Turbine engine casing runs through it, that's why the room is "H" shaped).

In all, I think the W.T.D's were the main cause of injuries to people below decks.

 

[Aaron_2016]

The Collyer tale is an interesting one but is there any indication where they were standing when this wounded stoker came up? Were they on the boat deck? In the second class accom areas? Also, where had this stoker been working? Which boiler room? Are there any other reports about this man? It seems pretty strange that a man with such a terrrible wound to his hand would not have been placed in a boat?

Charlotte was in second class near the stern and left the ship in lifeboat 14. Before she met the wounded man she said:

"When we reached the second-cabin promenade deck, we found a great many people there. Some officers were walking up and down, and shouting: “There is no danger, no danger whatever!” It was a clear starlight night, but very cold. There was not a ripple on the sea. A few of the passengers were standing by the rail, and looking down; but I want to say that, at that time, no one was frightened. Suddenly there was a commotion near one of the gangways, and we saw a stoker come climbing up from below. He stopped a few feet away from us. All the fingers of one hand had been cut off. Blood was running from the stumps, and blood was spattered over his face and over his clothes. The red marks showed very clearly against the coal dust with which he was covered"....He then fainted on a coil of rope. She continued...."Those in charge must have herded us toward the nearest boat deck; for that is where I presently found myself". She then got into lifeboat 14 and survived.



Charlotte Collyer

.

 

[Rob Lawes]

Ok, so she was aft on B deck by the sounds of it then and it sounds like the stoker came up the ladder from the aft well deck. It doesn't give us any clues as to where the stoker came from and I take it there is no indication as to what became of him? Given that it's such a strong image you would have thought that Titanic folklore would have more about the stoker with the cut off fingers?