Yes, Scotland Road was the main fore-aft passageway on the port-side of the ship. It was used by 3rd Class [see what I posted from Bruce and what Bob wrote] and also used by 1st and 2nd Class stewards whose quarters were outboard from it. I understand that the narrower starboard passageway that ran through 1st & 2nd Class may have been referred to as "Park Lane".

I doubt that children would have used the access doors into 1st or 2nd Class and if any had been seen climbing over the gates to B-deck I think they would have been sent packing.

Bathtups. There were only 2 for the whole of 3rd Class. 1st Class had 46 private bathrooms, the rest shared facilities. It seems to me that you need a set of deck plans. Do you not have any books with deck plans in them? - These are the best, but you can only view a section at a time and given your present understanding of where things were etc, you may find them difficult: http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/titanic/explorer/explorer.html See if you can use them to locate the two 3rd Class bathrooms on D-deck.

The reason that I keep asking these questions is that I am writing a story about "Titanic." Since it is historical fiction, do you think I could bend the rules a bit. I know these things didn't really happen, but I personally think that sometimes you need to bend the rules to write well. They won't be stepping all over them like Cameron's movie (though he did a great job), but I need some things to work in my novel that are only able to work if I tweak the rules a bit. I won't do it too much, but I still want the novel to work. Most people won't know I am bending the rules. I just barely found out how strict the class rules are. I'm not the first to tweak the rules. I mean, look at Cameron's movie and the German propaganda film (I forget its name). I'm not sure what the movie "A Night to Remember" is about, but I will soon enough. I'm getting a copy of it soon.

As to answer your first question, Lester, I kinda . . . erm . . . overlooked it.
. Sorry.

One final question. Does "Titanic, Triumph and Tragedy" have the deckplans in it? That book is on the way to me too.
Hello Ben,

Yes TT&T have deck plans based on the NARA/H&W Limitation plans. E&H made a few changes which makes the area of the officer's quarters/bridge incorrect. One advantage for you is that the rooms are numbered. - A few minor errors. - A number of doorways/openings are also not shown.

But using them in conjunction with the on-line plans should answer all of your questions about access between the classes. See if you can tell me how many doorways and stairs there were between 3rd Class and 1st Class and far more importantly between 3rd Class and 2nd Class. - Remember what I said about a block of rooms? - I await your answer.

A Night to Remember is based on Walter Lord's book of the same name and it regarded as one of the best Titanic movies. - Have you read the book?

I'm not sure what you mean by the blocks of rooms. Could you tell me what you mean? I don't have TT&T yet, but it should come tomorrow. As for ANTR, I haven't read it yet, but I'm bidding on it on eBay and I am also getting it through an ILL (Interlibrary Loan), in case I don't get it on eBay. So whatever happens, I'll have it in a little bit.

>>block [singular] of rooms<<
I posted this under our exchanges on E-deck
>>[but not the 40 rooms on G-deck which could be 2nd Class or 3rd Class]<< See if you can locate that "block of rooms" on either the on-line deck plans or the ones on this web-site. Look at the accesses.

By the way which US state do you live in?


Sorry had to work a swing shift. You might be able to get a copy of ANTR at Barnes & Noble. They might also have paperback copies of ANTR and TNLO. That's were I got mine though the plans aren't very detailed in the paperbacks and they don't have the photo's or illustrations that the hardback edition of ANTR does. But it's a good way to save money. A Night To Remember the movie is pretty good. Actually story wise it's better then Cameron's Titanic.

On class jumping children I still think it's possible for a child to sneak into another class if they knew how to go about it. Especially if the had a clean cut image and the kid was going from say third to second. Now sneaking into first would be much harder.
Children find their way into all sorts of places (and all sorts of scrapes) not so much because they know how to do it but rather because they don't know (or care!) that they shouldn't be doing it. So random exploration would be more believable than a plan of action as the means by which a child finds his or her way into the territory of another Class. And Ben, I wouldn't worry too much about getting everything right in a work of fiction. You have to bend the truth, or it wouldn't be fiction, right? Just try to create a believable setting with a good 'feeling' for time and place, which will be easier for you if your main characters have a background similar to your own. You can't set your story in a totally accurate Titanic because in the real ship your characters weren't there. Neither were bathtubs in the 2nd Class staterooms, but if it suits your story by all means put one in. You didn't know they weren't really there, and neither will 99% of your readers. But many people can and will spot anachronisms, so do spend some time studying the way people from different backgrounds dressed, talked and behaved back in 1912.

As a professional writer who has had an interest in Titanic for a number of years, I have a few short stories, one or two dealing with ships and people from that time. If I can offer any advice or input on that aspect of your project, just ask.

As for what Bob said about not getting everything right in fiction because it's fiction, although many stories don't get it it all right, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't. NEVER under estimate the intelligence or knowledge of the readers, because, sure as hell, they will surprise you more often than not. The more incongruities that exist in a story--especially a period piece--the more likely it will not be taken seriously and the easier it will be for others to pull it apart. Realism is called realism for a reason.

Why do you think so many of those comprising the Titanic community continuously criticize each and every single movie for its inaccuracies?

This is merely my opinion, of course, but I am also speaking experience.
Mark and Ben,
although many stories don't get it it all right, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't.

That what I was thinking. When I wrote my opus Titanic story in High School I tried to make it as real as possible because not only did my Teacher teach English but she also taught American History as well so I tried to make it as historically accurate as I could. Mark is right Ben try to make it as historically accurate as possible.

As for children sneaking around where they shouldn't be. That's what they do. In 1986 my brother who was (9) and I (8) lived near a Hotel and we used to pretend all the time that we were guests and take a swim in the pool. We were quite clever about it actually. Once a month we'd be off at the hotel swimming in the pool.
Hello Lester, Bob, Mark, and George

I'm still not entirely sure what you mean Lester. I can't find anything in the discussion about E-deck that would enlighten me as to what I would need to know. Call me stupid, but I am just having a difficult time comprehending what you are trying to say. Do you want me to see if I can find an area where 2nd class people could get into 3rd class?? Anyway, I am from Idaho, why do you want to know?

Bob, do you have any references to helpful books? I work at the University Library, so I have access to quite a few books. If you happen to have reference to some in particular, I can look them up.

Mark, I wasn't planning on adding any fantastical information. The reason I have been starting all of these message boards was getting all the information I would need to make this story be believable. I do, however, want to make a minute change by making it possible in the remotest degree for a 2nd class person to be able to get into the 3rd class area.

George, I'm guessing that was before the cool little credit cards that pass as keys now. I can't remember life without those. I'm young. On eBay, I am bidding for a copy of ANTR, and I also bought Titanic, Triumph and Tragedy to add to my library.

And also, nothing can be made perfect (take Titanic for example) but it can be close. People try.
Hello Mick,

Men forward. Women [and most likely the Rice family] aft. I'm not sure about the married couples, but understand they may have also been aft.

From this web-site: "Mary Katherine "Katie" Gilnagh shared cabin 161 on E Deck with Katie Mullen, Kate and Mary Murphy."

Roger Tobin reads: "cabin #38 on F-deck". - Room 38 was in section C - forward on F-deck. - The smaller of the 2 inside rooms to the port-side of No 2 Hatch.

There may be others in the biographies.

Ben- We never went into the rooms and the pool area was just off from the lobby and you didn't need a key to get to it. It's a wonder we were never caught actually because we had to go by the front desk to get to the pool. Yes Ben this was back in the days of actual room "keys".

I was just wondering about the time difference. - I guess you will be about 19 hours behind. For me it is now 12:50 pm Saturday afternoon.

On the understanding that you wanted to know the access points between 2nd and 3rd Class I drew attention to the fact that a "block of rooms on G-deck" could be let to either 2nd or 3rd Class passengers. Clearly both passenger classes would have needed to have direct access to those rooms. In the case of 2nd Class from their after stairway and in the case of 3rd Class by a special staircase that came down from Scotland Road. Depending which class occupied those rooms the other class would have been closed/locked out. Whether by doors or Bostwick [grill-type, probably full deck height?] gates or a combination of the two and where they were located I do not know. For the maiden voyage it would seem 3rd Class occupied those rooms, so there would have been a single flight of stairs with a door or gate at the top or bottom, or perhaps both leading up to 2nd Class on F-deck. - You should be able to see this for yourself with the deck plans on this web-site.