Deck restrictions 3rd class

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Mona Carol-Kaufman

Guest
I know that some stuff about this subject has been covered before, but I don't think my question has been answered.

I'm wondering if those in the third class, before the ship took off, were allowed to wander onto the upper decks - specificually on the deck areas not the inside areas.

Thanks a lot for any help you can provide
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Matthew O'Brien

Guest
Mona,

This is only speculation, but I would guess not. I understand that in order to prevent the spread of infectious disease, American law prohibted third class passenegers from entering the public areas of the upper two classes, including deck space. I imagine that because Titanic was bound for an American port, these restrictions would have been strictly enforced. White Star would probably not have allowed them entrance even if there were no laws to obey; I am sure that the first class passengers would not have appreciated their presence, nor would they pay large sums to mingle with a class of people they avoided on shore. Also, before being allowed entrance to the vessel, third class passengers would have to pass the health inspections, they would probably only have minimal time after this to board the ship and get settled in, not enough free time to tour the ship, even if they wanted to.

Again, this is only speculation and I will be happy to be proven wrong.

Hope this helps,

Matt
 
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Mette Hjermind McCall

Guest
Matt & Mona,

Just a simple question from a Titanic novice; Were 3rd class passengers not allowed on any of the decks at all? (before the sinking of course).

Best, Mette McCall
 

Erik Wood

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Apr 10, 2001
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One might want to do some digging. I believe there are health codes that where in place at the time saying that the third class had to be restricted to certain areas of the ship. Perhaps Inger Sheil will pop in and give us some better idea.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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I think you'll find that they were allowed up on deck in areas set aside for third class...such as both well decks and the poop deck. Inside the ship, they were restricted to the accomadation and public rooms set aside for them.
 
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Camron Miller

Guest
Third class passengers would never have been allowed in second and first class areas, including deck-space, due to the risk of infectious disease spreading. If third class passengers had come into contact with any first class passengers, then every first class passenger would have to be quarantined - a public relations disaster. Quarantining the rich and famous of the day would have been inconceivable. Therefore, steerage were restricted to their own decks. However, I understand that second class passengers were allowed to tour first class public rooms prior to sailing, to get a glimpse of the first class accomodation. This was a sort of compensation for those who would otherwise have been travelling first class on another, less expensive White Star ship, reduced in status through no fault if their own. Winnie Troutt mentions visiting the reading and writing room, and trying to convince her companion to "borrow" some of the linen stationary.
 
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Mette Hjermind McCall

Guest
Michael,

Where on the ship were the poop and well decks located?
Best,
Mette.
 
Jun 4, 2003
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HI EVERYONE!!! IN THE 1997 FILM, WE SEE A LOT OF MICE RUNNING AWAY ALONG WITH JACK AND HIS FRIENDS. WAS THAT HISTORICALLY CORRECT? COULD MICE EASILY BE FOUND IN PASSENGERS' QUARTERS, EVEN IF IT IS ONLY THIRD CLASS STEERAGE? THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Rats actually, unless the mice were on steroids, and yes, there were rats on the Titanic, if some accounts about children chasing them are to be believed. It was a bit hard to keep them off in that day and age.
 
Oct 28, 2009
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Hello
I've read the following:

"This, incidentally, is why US immigration regulations insisted that the Third Class passengers were strictly segregated from Second and First during the voyage."

does anyone have any material that they can point me to online that I could use as a reference please?

Thanks
Tina
 
I have a question, when the ship sank,few third class passangers (specially women) managed to get into the first class area of the ship and the boat deck and escape in a lifeboat. They even shared boats with first class passangers and accomodations on board the Carpathia. As far as I am concerned no one got sick nor a quarentine took place. Wasn't this enough to retire such classist regulations?
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Wasn't this enough to retire such classist regulations?<<

Nope. "Classist" has little to do with it. The regulations had everything to do with the fact that a lot of immigrants were coming, and in a lot of instances, running from places where there were signifigent problems with health and sanitation. Some very serious diseases such as typhus, typhiod, cholorea, plague, and other "fun" bugs were a very real problem.

All else aside, second class were not permitted in the 1st class either and the first class was not permitted to go into the second or third class. The restrictions were both ways.

That didn't always stop the violations or the attempts, but they were there.
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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Remember that the third class passengers who ended up on Carpathia had been screened before they boarded Titanic, so there wasn't too much risk of them spreading disease.
 

Bob Godfrey

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As far as possible the three Classes of surviving passengers were segregated on board the Carpathia as they had been on the Titanic. And though the 3rd Class survivors were spared the indignities of Ellis Island they didn't entirely escape the attentions of the immigration inspectors, who caught up with most of them eventually.

The screening at Ellis Island was intended to prevent the entry of immigrants who might be a burden rather than an asset to the nation, so those with no funds at all and the unemployable and the potential trouble-makers were weeded out along with the unhealthy. The assumption that cabin class passengers were generally not destitute, disease-ridden or arriving with criminal intent was practical, if not entirely fair to all concerned.
 

Jim Kalafus

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Dec 3, 2000
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Yet, one wonders about the standards applied.

If you check the immigration record for Lusitania survivor Jeanie Fyfe, who came to the U.S. in 1914, and who traveled in second class, you'll see that they noted she was senile but allowed her entry, anyhow. Annie Kelly, 18, who was on the completed final voyage and en route to join her family in Massachusetts, was immediately confined and then deported on the fatal crossing for having a defective heart valve. (The newspaper reported it was tuberculosis, but her records are online, and it was her heart valve problems which made her unsuitable) Her family, and fiance, arrived with all the necessary paperwork to prove that she would not become a public charge, just in time to wave goodbye to the departing liner. And, yes, she died.

Several passengers, known to be tubercular, entered the U.S. with virtually no mention of it creeping in to their papers. And, the May 1 sailing was a veritible convention of the tuberculous... which is more a question about Cunard standards as they were in 1915, and not immigration rules per se. One of the first class passengers, who survived, returned home and died from T.B. three months later, yet there is no mention, anywhere in the records, of that passenger representing a health hazard. That person, BTW, made 7 crossings in 1914 alone, with not a single mention of "Terminally ill- contagious" entering the paperwork. (One of the first class males from the May 1 voyage had the odd notation "three inch scar next to groin" immortalised on HIS return paperwork, so they COULD be thorough when they wished to be)

Same time, you had Mrs. Antila, of Rockledge, Michigan, interned in September 1914 for an unnamed disease (fully discussed in missing reports) along with her two children, who were U.S. citizens. The disease HAD to have been either TB or venereal; all three Antilas were kept in the hospital until May 1915 and, again, deported (to Finland) on the fatal voyage. They were one of the few families to survive intact, just as a BTW.

So, that is an aspect of the immigration experience I'd like to see more fully explored. Why it was that a heart murmor could get you deported in 5 days, tuberculosis did not seem to bar you from traveling eastbound in ANY of the three classes, a senile woman who WASNT a citizen could gain entry while a probably-tubercular widow whose husband WAS a U.S. Citizen was deportable, along with her full-fledged American children, after a 9 month internment... it all seems so random.
 
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Do you mean travelling westbound, in relation to the TB, Jim? It seems that way from what you say.

I expect the discrepancies you report were due to whoever was on duty - both doctors and immigration officials. TB and senility was everywhere and probably ignored unless the doctor thought either was controllable. But VD carried connotations of moral decadence. Don't understand the heart murmur, but maybe they'd just found out how to detect it - that would have given it more validity.

It's interesting, but I bet the differing and illogical conclusions were a result of individual decisions on the part of the officials.
 

Bob Godfrey

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Actually very few immigrants received any kind of medical examination as such. At Ellis Island everybody was checked for trachoma, a process so rapid that the queue didn't stop moving, while spotters looked for obvious symptoms of other problems and made a quick chalk mark on the coat of anybody who looked suspicious. A little further on these individuals were pulled from the queue and taken away for full examination - if they hadn't been advised in the meantime to rub off the mark. Those who knew the ropes in any case would make every effort to conceal any symptom which might suggest they weren't 100% fit, and advise others to do likewise. Otherwise a simple sneeze or a stumble might lead to the examination room and the discovery of a far more serious ailment. On the other hand, an individual might easily get through with a serious medical condition if the symptoms were intermittent or not evident to casual observation. Hit and miss.