Did more Third Class men survive than First and Second Class
- Thread starter Marian
- Start date
Jake Peterson
Member
Walter Lord's book "The Night Lives On" has a chapter entitled "What happened to the Goodwins?" that would interest you.
You can find and order the book from Amazon. I have the book, and I read it every year in April.
You can find and order the book from Amazon. I have the book, and I read it every year in April.
Lester Mitcham
Member
Marian, if you are asking how many adult male passenengers survived by Passenger Class -
1st 58, 2nd 13, 3rd 60.
1st 58, 2nd 13, 3rd 60.
Lester Mitcham
Member
You are welcome.
>>Do you know of anyone that argues against these figures<<
The 1912 Inquiry figures [US - 54, 15, 69 - British - 57, 14, 75]
differ but they as with all of their numbers can be name/number corrected back to what I have given you.
You can very easily confirm the numbers for yourself.
>>Do you know of anyone that argues against these figures<<
The 1912 Inquiry figures [US - 54, 15, 69 - British - 57, 14, 75]
differ but they as with all of their numbers can be name/number corrected back to what I have given you.
You can very easily confirm the numbers for yourself.
Dave Gittins
Member
Lester is too modest to recommend you get Report into the Loss of the RMS Titanic, a Centennial Reappraisal, of which he is a co-author.
It contains the most accurate passenger and crew lists available, assembled by Lester, plus a discussion of the treatment of the various classes of passengers, especially third class.
Another good book is Rescue of the Third Class on Titanic, by David Gleicher. While I think David overstates his case in places, his work is well researched and referenced, which is more than I can say for many books.
It contains the most accurate passenger and crew lists available, assembled by Lester, plus a discussion of the treatment of the various classes of passengers, especially third class.
Another good book is Rescue of the Third Class on Titanic, by David Gleicher. While I think David overstates his case in places, his work is well researched and referenced, which is more than I can say for many books.
Dave, just the person I need. You commented this a few months back: Marian, I generally recommend David Gleicher's book, though I think he overstates his case at times. It's well researched.
Our new book, THE LOSS OF THE SS TITANIC A CENTENNIAL REAPPRAISAL, contains a careful study of the treatment of the third class passengers. It's more detailed than anything previously seen. It counteracts misinformation put about in movies. It's becoming available right now.
Steven Biel's Down With the Old Canoe looks at how the disaster was seen by various groups in US society.
Some of the older books are getting a bit obsolete. ANTR is a good read, but it's not always reliable.
By the way, do you know that in raw figures slightly more third class men survived than first class? In percentage terms it was worse of course. Second class men did worst of all.
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Dave Gittins
Where did you read: ‘that in raw figures slightly more third class men survived than first class? In percentage terms it was worse of course. Second class men did worst of all.'
If you could provide me with more info that would be great as I could use this to argue survival of the sinking did not depend on social class (although I believe it did)
Also yes I have used RMS Titanic, a Centennial Reappraisal (great book)
but I also need plenty more to cover the 2nd half of my dissertation and it would be great to find some sources who argue against my case or any other books that talk about the third class would be great.
These are the books I have already used:
Filson Young Titanic
Paul J Quinn Titanic at Two
Judith B Geller Titanic Women and Children first
Sean Molony Titanic Victims and Villains/ The Irish aboard Titanic
Walter Lord The night lives on
Geoff Tibballs The Mammoth book of how it happened Titanic
David Brown the last log of the Titanic
R P Howells The myth of the Titanic
S. Barczewski Titanic: a night remembered
D.Gleicher, Research in Maritime History No. 31, The rescue of the third class on the Titanic, A revisionist history
( I read Gleicher’s book at the museum archives but would like to get a copy of my own but struggling to find anything online)
T. Bergfelder, S. Street, The Titanic in myth and memory: representations in visual and literary culture
G. Behe, On Board RMS Titanic
R. Musman, Titanic
S. Biel, Down with the old canoe: a cultural history of the Titanic disaster
P. K. Sebak, Titanic 31 Norwegian Destinies
R. Gardiner, Titanic: The ship that never sank
A. Ruffman, Titanic Remembered: The Unsinkable Ship and Halifax
D. Haisman, Titanic: The Edith Brown Story
Thank you
Marian
Our new book, THE LOSS OF THE SS TITANIC A CENTENNIAL REAPPRAISAL, contains a careful study of the treatment of the third class passengers. It's more detailed than anything previously seen. It counteracts misinformation put about in movies. It's becoming available right now.
Steven Biel's Down With the Old Canoe looks at how the disaster was seen by various groups in US society.
Some of the older books are getting a bit obsolete. ANTR is a good read, but it's not always reliable.
By the way, do you know that in raw figures slightly more third class men survived than first class? In percentage terms it was worse of course. Second class men did worst of all.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Gittins
Where did you read: ‘that in raw figures slightly more third class men survived than first class? In percentage terms it was worse of course. Second class men did worst of all.'
If you could provide me with more info that would be great as I could use this to argue survival of the sinking did not depend on social class (although I believe it did)
Also yes I have used RMS Titanic, a Centennial Reappraisal (great book)
but I also need plenty more to cover the 2nd half of my dissertation and it would be great to find some sources who argue against my case or any other books that talk about the third class would be great.
These are the books I have already used:
Filson Young Titanic
Paul J Quinn Titanic at Two
Judith B Geller Titanic Women and Children first
Sean Molony Titanic Victims and Villains/ The Irish aboard Titanic
Walter Lord The night lives on
Geoff Tibballs The Mammoth book of how it happened Titanic
David Brown the last log of the Titanic
R P Howells The myth of the Titanic
S. Barczewski Titanic: a night remembered
D.Gleicher, Research in Maritime History No. 31, The rescue of the third class on the Titanic, A revisionist history
( I read Gleicher’s book at the museum archives but would like to get a copy of my own but struggling to find anything online)
T. Bergfelder, S. Street, The Titanic in myth and memory: representations in visual and literary culture
G. Behe, On Board RMS Titanic
R. Musman, Titanic
S. Biel, Down with the old canoe: a cultural history of the Titanic disaster
P. K. Sebak, Titanic 31 Norwegian Destinies
R. Gardiner, Titanic: The ship that never sank
A. Ruffman, Titanic Remembered: The Unsinkable Ship and Halifax
D. Haisman, Titanic: The Edith Brown Story
Thank you
Marian
Bob Godfrey
Member
Marian, maybe you haven't seen Lester's full analysis right here on ET: https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-statistics.html
That should provide you with the numbers in any form you might require. And Lester's figures can be trusted as the most accurate available at this time.
That should provide you with the numbers in any form you might require. And Lester's figures can be trusted as the most accurate available at this time.
Lester Mitcham
Member
Dave, Bob,
Thank you both. Hope you are keeping well.
Regards,
Lester
Thank you both. Hope you are keeping well.
Regards,
Lester
Bob Godfrey
Member
Marian, you do realise that there were a lot more 3rd Class males on board than 1st or 2nd? Consider the survival rates (ie proportions of lost and saved), not the absolute numbers. And bear in mind that the policy on the boat deck was in some locations 'women and children first' and in others 'women and children only', with no questions asked about what a man had paid for his ticket. That policy was the death warrant for most of the men on board, whatever their social class. So you'd do better to compare the survival rates for women and children in the three Classes. If a 1st Class ticket bought a better chance of survival, that's where you're most likely to find evidence in the statistics. And find it you will.
