Dining Room Windows


Mar 3, 1998
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Jake,

The Silent Room was adjacent to the Marconi Room and housed the transmitting set. It was called the Silent Room because its walls were heavily insulated to keep the noise of the spark and spark-generating machinery from distracting the Marconi operator. Basically, the receiving and emergency apparatus were in the Marconi Room, the transmitting in the Silent Room. The key that controlled the transmission of the spark, though, was in the Marconi Room, so that the operator could both send and receive from there.

Parks
 
M

Matt Endacott

Guest
Parks,

Is there any trips going down to the wreck soon in which are allowed to remove the Marconi set, or is there are law against it?

Thanks,
Matt.
 
Mar 3, 1998
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Matt,

I don't believe that there is a law against the salvor in possession removing the set, as long as it is treated like the other artefacts they have raised. Someone more versed in the law will have to address this.

Of course, there are pirates who operate outside the law. Pirates raided the wreck during a three-month period late last year, and it is still unknown what they took or attempted to take. Did they go after the Marconi apparatus? I don't think so...but I don't know.

Parks
 
Jul 12, 2003
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Parks, forgive my ignorance but I didn't hear of the piracy incident last year. Do I understand that to mean that they had access to a sub and all other necessary equipment to get to the wreck? After the incident, are there any patrols in the area to prevent other acts like that? Just curious.
 
J

Jake Angus

Guest
The mummy patrols the wreck now!
proud.gif
 
Mar 3, 1998
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Deborah,

Yes, from what I've heard, the people that went after the wreck last year had everything they needed to reach it and potentially do damage. Some involved allegedly had previous experience diving on the wreck. It is rumoured that they even had the means to cut loose an object as large as one of the anchors and raise it to the surface (a proposal that had been made previously but not carried out by the salvor), although I believe their priority was the bridge telemotor. Like I said, it is unknown what was retrieved (if anything), but the trail seems to lead to Liverpool.

About all I can tell you is that the Russians were not involved. The Mirs were still in their maintenance standdown period at the time.

There is no enforcement of laws "protecting" the wreck. The only real protection the wreck has is the depth at which it lies. For those who have the means and the right timing, though, the wreck is wide open to plunder. Jake was not far off the mark when he stated that the mummy alone patrols the wreck.

We have to wait until someone can dive on the wreck and take stock of the damage, if any. Evidently, no one on the tourist dives this summer noticed anything unusual, but those dives rarely deviate from an established route around the wreck. I have heard no report of the telemotor coming up missing, and that is one of the highlights of the tourist route.

Marc Davis wrote an article about the piracy in the Norfolk, VA-area newspaper, the Virginian-Pilot, a little while back. I don't have a link to the article handy, but somebody else here might. This information has been public for a few months now and I've always wondered why nobody in this forum (or any other Titanic forum) took much of an interest in it...just about everything else having to do with the wreck, both fanciful and factual, always seems to generate lively discussion. Not in this case, though.

Parks
 
M

Matt Endacott

Guest
hey,
just quickly back to the window,
Does anyone know who planned the designs for the windows onboard?
Did different people design the windows in the Dining Saloon to those in suites & the lounge?
In particular im interested in the smoking room windows - does anyone know if any survive in the wreck & also if there is anything left of the smoking room at all?
Thanks
 
B

Brian Hawley

Guest
Matt, various light fixtures from the smoking room have been recovered. They are all badly crushed and give some idea of the destruction the stern went through that night. The smoking room itself is really roughed up with parts swept clean. Here is a photo of a recovered light from Ken Marschall's excellent 2001 wreck report.


As for windows I have seen some photos identified in books by Ken that came from the cafes so perhaps some from the smoking room were blown out into the debris field as well.


A small photo of part of a window is on the link above.

Check out this page on Roy Mengots site for a diagram of the smoking room as it was in 1986.

The First Class Smoke Room

Roy also says of the smoking room:

"The back wall and fireplace are smashed. All of the floor tiles appear to be gone. A section of support beam and 4 floor joists lays on the port side."

As you can see not much is left.

Brian
 
C

Christine Geyer

Guest
Just my 5 cents as I've "discovered" this thread only now:

1.) In a way I can very well understand Matt's desire of saving those things that seem so precious to us - as long as it's possible. This picture of the Dining Room window was certainly one of THE images in GOTA that made us all gasp for breath. The thought we might loose it now that it survived the disaster and even more then 90 years down there is hard to imagine and I feel all dumps imagining it as well. If it would've been found in the debris field in the condition it is in it would certainly been one of the very first things that would've been brought up. I'd be the first one in the exhibition to run around it in circles for hours and hours. But cutting it out of the wreck, risking the collapse of a complete part of the wreck, and like Michael said, the lives of the people working on it and the destruction of large portions of other artifacts? No. In this case let's appreciate that there are people working very hard to make those beautiful photos. Otherwise we had never come to know about it, we had never known its colours, and it would've disappeared forever in the dark.

2.) I completely agree with Parks about the question of what is more "worthy" being salvaged. The masses may find a cup or fork more tangible than such a specific technical instrument that they're not familiar with. And of course it IS great to have such items to look at. But down there are also hundreds of seemingly insignificant things that, if you're familiar with the story of the Titanic and its people, tell stories which go far beyond the thought of "Oh, someone actually drank from this cup". I think Parks made a great example about that with the Marconi room. In this case there's not only important technical information about the instrument but there's also so much human drama about it. Those artifacts and finds can tell the stories of those dramatic (last) hours in certain peoples lives. Sometimes it's just a little glimse of that but still far more touching than a cup.

Regards
Christine
 
Jan 4, 2005
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Very interesting thread of posts I must admit. I believe you are not salvaging, rather, saving these items for the future to understand where they came from, etc. As in the gymnasium roof, now all is destroyed and nothing can be attributed to it rather than older photos of the wreck. Though 22, I have numerous artifacts from wreck sites and I find myself in my room stating at them wondering what they could say if they talked. I love having my friends over and teaching them their histories when they ask me where a specific saucer or piece of silverware came from. In another post - I mentioned the Gettysburg and what I believe the most potent of artifact salvaging displays, the Holocaust museum. There is a room full of hundreds of shoes from the victims of the concentration camps, their gates and concrete pillars, along with other reminders. While controversial, yes - these are being preserved and visiting the museum really gives you a deeper impact on what really happened... to think those items were actually there. Shipwreck artifacts preserve the past before they are destroyed inevitably. The only way people can view Empress artifacts are through actually diving to the wreck or knowing someone who has items. I used my artifacts in numerous presentations on historical wrecks and they have generated more inquiry and amazement than if I were to just show photos. People want to learn more and it gives them a better insight which I think is the goal of any historian.

While my thoughts may not be as organized as that of the previous posts, I hope you can at least understand my point. I know if I were a deceased passenger of a wreck, I'd rather my personal effects be found and displayed with my history than be destroyed forever and my history erased.

Eddie Petruskevich
http://westphalia101.tripod.com
 

Matt Simons

Member
Mar 12, 2005
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I'm kinda in the middle when it comes to raising this reception room (i believe that's where the movie said it was from) window to the surface. If it was to sit there, then when titanic eventully collapses, it would probably be destroyed.

I do believe that RMS, which owns Titanic, does not allow the raising of items that are still in their original locations. If they did, then the lights in the first class grand staircase with the beads still on them, would of been brought to the surface. Along with other items.
 
Jun 22, 2005
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Just a thought-don't know if it's quite relevant, but--I was living in South Carolina when the Hunley was recovered from Charleston Bay, complete with the skeletons of the (I believe) eight crewmembers still inside. I don't recall anyone accusing Clive Cussler of graverobbing. I did attend the full military ceremony of the crewmembers in the Confederate cemetary in Charleston, and it was quite moving to see those soldiers finally returning home to rest. That done, work still continues on the Hunley, as far as conserving and studying it. It has brought home exactly what those men lived through, and, to me at least, it was an entirely respectful way to handle the salvaging of what was without a doubt the resting place of those men. So, I guess salvaging items of historical significance from Titanic doesn't bother me, it's the salvaging of items that they already have examples of that I don't feel is right. Also, if it would compromise what structural integrity the ship still retains, leave it alone. Just a thought.
 
D

Diego Uriol

Guest
Can anybody explain me how did sunlight came into the dining saloon through the double row of portholes?
(sorry for my english, i'm from peru and my native language in spanish)
 

Shel Cooper

Member
Nov 8, 2013
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AZ/LA
Jake and Diego, they were illuminated. Behind each window was a piece of Cathedral Grey glass, the same used to back church windows. Behind that was a space that was painted white and had several bulbs mounted to create the effect.
 

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