Discrepancy of Individuals In Certain Boats


Edinlake

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I've noticed quite often that we have certain passengers as placed in a lifeboat, but testimony given somewhat contradicts what is believed to have happened.

For example, Mrs. Walter Clark is listed as being saved in lifeboat # 4 and Mrs. Walter Douglas in Lifeboat # 2. However Major Peuchen (Lifeboat # 6) was asked in his testimony who he knew was in his lifeboat. He responded that a few passengers from his lifeboat signed their name on a card. These names included Boweman, Smith, Rothschild, Cavendish, Meyer, and Brown. (All of which are listed as boat 6 occupants) But right there, he also mentioned Mrs. Walter Clark and Mrs. Walter Douglas! So what I am wondering is how Clark and Douglas were placed into different lifeboat lists? It seems evident in his testimony that he recalls them being in his boat. I tried reading up on Mrs. Clark's experience that night but nothing pointed to the fact of what lifeboat number she occupied. So what is the source of placing these two women in separate boats? I assume it was Gracie's book, but that seems to lack evidence. I find what Peuchen said to be more convincing.

Another mysterious one is Miss Constance Willard. She is commonly placed in lifeboat number 8, but her news article does not match up with the occupants of that particular boat. She states that 20 women and 7 men were in her lifeboat. But she also states that her boat had several children! I don't much believe the tale that a girl came crying up to her begging to be saved, but I do believe her when she says her lifeboat had many children in it. That does not match up with what we know of boat 8.

Obviously we will never know for sure who was in what lifeboat, but I am really fascinated by this aspect of Titanic, and much like the cabin debate, the lifeboat launching debate, etc. there should be a debate on this as well.

Thoughts?
 
Mar 18, 2008
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Peuchen is wrong (and not the first time) it was Mary Douglas (actually Baxter) who was in his boat. Mrs (Walter) Douglas was in No. 2 as her testimony at the American Inquiry made it clear and she is also mentioned by Boxhall in his boat No. 2.
Mrs. Clark was in No. 4, she was one of the women who helped Prentice out of the water after the ship went down. (Prentice had placed her into No. 4).
 

Edinlake

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Peuchen is wrong (and not the first time) it was Mary Douglas (actually Baxter) who was in his boat. Mrs (Walter) Douglas was in No. 2 as her testimony at the American Inquiry made it clear and she is also mentioned by Boxhall in his boat No. 2.
Mrs. Clark was in No. 4, she was one of the women who helped Prentice out of the water after the ship went down. (Prentice had placed her into No. 4).

Do you have a source to back this claim up?

But thanks for clearing up Douglas for me. :)
 

Adam Went

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Further to what Ioannis said, if you read books which contain ample testimony from survivors (such as "Titanic Voices") it's clear that a number of survivors were confused as to which lifeboat they were actually in, or who was supposedly in that boat with them. This has led to some misinformation over the years, but it should be remembered that many of these people were probably in a state of shock and weren't clear in their own minds what boats they were in, only that they were in a boat.

Cheers,
Adam.
 
Mar 18, 2008
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Further to what Ioannis said, if you read books which contain ample testimony from survivors (such as "Titanic Voices") it's clear that a number of survivors were confused as to which lifeboat they were actually in, or who was supposedly in that boat with them.

Also you have add to it that there are also several survivors who did made things up (Mrs. Futrelle gave different versions making it sound she was in No. D or even No. 4 but was actually in No. 9 as she was mentioned for example by Mrs. Lines) and in other cases people who were in the same lifeboat gave different versions, sounding as if they were talking about different boats.
 

Adam Went

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Ioannis:

Yes, that's true as well. There were some survivors who wanted to make themselves look a bit better and in the process confused the subject of the lifeboat they were in and who was with them. It is a shame but when you have 700 odd survivors there's bound to be some discrepancies.

Edinlake:

It's been a while since i've read "Titanic Voices" and i'd have to review it to name specific names, but it's a good source for showing where the confusion started and who was really where. We should also remember that some passengers transferred between lifeboats, such as when passengers were distributed amongst other lifeboats so that the surviving occupants of Collapsible B could be rescued. Therefore, it is possible - perhaps even likely - that some passengers who had escaped in one boat ended up being taken to the Carpathia in another and that, on top of everything else, may have contributed to their own confusion as well.

Cheers,
Adam.
 

Edinlake

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I'm more interested in finding out what lifeboat the passenger left in as opposed to what boat they were rescued in.

Personally for me, there are a few question marks. The Fortune family for one. I'm not quite sure where the evidence to them leaving in boat 10 comes from as I have not read an account given by them. Mrs. Holverson is another one for me. Others include Constance Willard, Mrs. Silvey, Aubart and Maid, Fleggenheim, and I know there are a few others to which I'd have to read the passenger list again.

I know Silvey (11) Aubart (9) Holverson (8) Fleggenheim (7) are documented but I haven't read accounts given by any of these ladies, with the exception of Gracie placing Aubart in boat 9. Any others that could be question marks?

Edited to add: I just read the research article on Fleggenheim and it says she was friends with the Greenfields on board, so I can now see the evidence for her boarding lifeboat 7. Also I was pleased to see that they located her cabin number as D8 as I don't have her listed on my personal cabin allocation word document and I can now remove her from the unknown list.
 
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Steward Ward and Richard Pfropper (listed as Proffer) mentioned Mme Aubart in her boat No. 9 (both helped her into the boat) as did Miss Sägesser who took her to No. 9 and entered the boat after her.
The others would need to look. I think Holverson was mentioned. Fleggenheim herself mentioned to had been in No. 7.

In some cases we will not know for sure as there were no "list" taken.
 

Edinlake

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Steward Ward and Richard Pfropper (listed as Proffer) mentioned Mme Aubart in her boat No. 9 (both helped her into the boat) as did Miss Sägesser who took her to No. 9 and entered the boat after her.
The others would need to look. I think Holverson was mentioned. Fleggenheim herself mentioned to had been in No. 7.

In some cases we will not know for sure as there were no "list" taken.

There are clues to everything. You just need to find them and I am making that my personal mission. :p
 

Adam Went

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Edinlake:

Ordinarily you would say that the best evidence would come from the officers who launched and/or manned the lifeboats, but Murdoch of course died in the sinking and the surviving testimony of the crew members in the boats is sometimes conflicting as well. In the heat of the moment, it would have been very easy to mistake Boat 11 for Boat 13 or similar - just using that as an example. Having said that, I wish you luck with your mission!

Cheers,
Adam.
 

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