DUMB Question Here Ibd like to know how many of you miss the Titanic

[steven p greiner]

Don't be too sure that it would not make a difference in the world today. I couldn't begin to do the mathematics, but 1,500+ lives can leave a big hole out there. The generations of people to have never been born, and what those people could have acclomplished. Maybe I am too much of a sci-fi fan. In science fiction there are many examples of timelines, alternate timelines, and the like. One of my favorites is the Star Trek episode "The city on the edge of forever" where 1 woman in the past must die to restore the present universe...had she lived, the entire 24th century universe would have been a mess, and many things would not exist.

But yes, all those aforementioned factors at work. Fun to think about, though

 

[Paul Wilkinson]

Hi Michael,

Of course you're right that there were other factors, but I believe it's fair to say that the loss of the two Olympic class ships had a long lasting negative impact on their main transatlantic business. After the war, White Star was left with Olympic, whereas Cunard had Mauretania and Aquitania. Furthermore, Cunard was able to reinstate its three ship weekly service with the aquisition of Berengaria in 1920. White Star had to wait until 1922 to obtain one suitable running mate for Olympic (the second Majestic). Unfortunately they never had a suitably large and fast third ship, having to make do with Homeric.

I'm sure I read some fairly detailed analysis of the constraints this placed on White Star's transatlantic operation, but seeing as we're in the middle of decorating, all my books are boxed up! I'll try to remember to look it up when I can get at them...

Cheers

Paul

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Don't be too sure that it would not make a difference in the world today. I couldn't begin to do the mathematics, but 1,500+ lives can leave a big hole out there.<<

I agree, and that was the whole point of my initial response to Sharon's proposition.

Paul, I wouldn't disagree with the premise that losing two of their biggest ships...one befor she even had a chance to enter revenue service...had an impact. It couldn't possibly have been helpful over the long haul. Paul Louden-Brown goes into the other dynamics as well, such as the severe restrictions placed on immigration by the United States. From where I sit, changes in the market and just plain bad management did more to put the last nails into White Star's coffin then the loss of two ships ever could.

 

[Teri Lynn Milch]

Sharon,

Whether she lived or died that night she would have been known as the grandest ship in the world because that is what she was marketed to be known as.

Speaking from pure conjecture, if she had not had her accident she might have spent her life being thought of as "just another glorious ship that sailed the high seas." Now I do not know about you, but that thought to me is as abhorrent as her sinking.

--Teri

 

[Brandon Whited]

Hey there, Teri! Good to see you back on the boards.

I've always imagined that had the Titanic not met her tragic demise, we would be discussing another liner that did. Perhaps it would have been a ship that, because of the changes made after the sinking of Titanic, never encountered its iceberg, or perhaps it would have been a tragedy that occurred under other circumstances, such as the Lusitania.

I think it's safe to imagine that Titanic would have been virtually unheard-of by today's general public, but admired by liner buffs in the same way as the Olympic and other classic liners are.

Unfortunately, this scenario would leave us void of much literature and media on the subject (not that there would be much to write about had the accident not occurred).

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Unfortunately, this scenario would leave us void of much literature and media on the subject <<

True, but it also would have resulted in 1500 fewer corpses for the Atlantic Ocean to add to it's tally, though one has to wonder if there might have been more becuase a disaster occured that might have been avoided otherwise.

 

[Teri Lynn Milch]

Hello Brandon,

Thank you for the nice reply.

I would have to agree with you that if she had not had her accident she would probably be among the liners admired by buffs today, although she would certainly be remembered as the grandest ship that carried the grandest of passengers. No ship even today, can beat that.

Take Care Brandon -

--Teri

 

[Brandon Whited]

I'm in agreement with Michael's point of view concerning the lack of literature had the Titanic not sank: I'd much rather have 1,503 passengers and crew members safe and dry than around a thousand books, the largest portion of which I will never have in my possession.

As for a greater death tally from a disaster that would have been avoided...well, I guess that's just left to speculation. It's certainly something to ponder, though.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>As for a greater death tally from a disaster that would have been avoided...well, I guess that's just left to speculation.<<

Perhaps not. Check out the ferry disasters in the far east such as the Phillipines, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Bangladesh. They not only kill hundreds, they manage to kill thousands and all without an iceberg's help! The ferry Doña Paz collided with a small tanker in the Phillipne archipeligo and easily took over 4000 people to a watery grave. (The official count was 1,565, but the ship was known to be overcrowded) There were only 21 survivors.

 

[Brandon Whited]

Whoa, those death tolls are almost enough to turn one's stomach!

I believe I've heard of the Dona Paz before. Did that disaster occur sometime around December of 1945, or am I confusing it with another vessel? I remember reading about a vessel which sank during that time and took with it around 3,500 people.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

The Doña Paz disaster happened in 1987. You can read up on it HERE.

 

[Brandon Whited]

Ah, I see. Entirely different vessel than the one I was thinking of then. Thanks for the link, Michael. I found it interesting.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

You might find This Article to be of interest. This ship had gotten into trouble befor.

 

[Brandon Whited]

What was a catastrophe that was. I was saddened to note that according to that last article, approximately 1,000 of the victims were children.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Unfortunately, children as a large preportion of victims is all too common a thread in such event as it is with just about anyone else who can't readily look after themselves. When things go sour on a ship, things tend to get downright "Darwinian" real quick. Only the strongest and/or the sneakiest and most ruthless tend to survive whatever comes next. In the case of the Doña Paz, I don't think there was much time for anyone to work things out once that fire got going. It effectively incinerated both ships so anyone on either stood little chance of getting out alive in the first place. With ferries operating in most parts of Asia, deliberate overcrowding is an all too common occurance and that tends to drive the body count up.

The owners don't care so long as the revenues come in. If there's a chance of getting sued, some of the companies can liquidate into nonexistance at the stroke of a pen and re-organize as what is legally a new entity with no connection to the old. (The Board of Directors for the new company "just happens" to be hired on from the old one, and the "Corperate Headquarters" is just a different post office box.)

The Fortunate thing about Titanic at least was that the ship was undersold as far as her bookings went. Had the ship been operating to her full capacity, the casualties would have been far worse.