Edith Corse Evans


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sashka pozzetti

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I agree that Miss Francatelli was probably on a nice wage, but she threw on a bizarre assortment of clothing, that you wouldn't wear if you were expecting to go back to bed, including an apron. Maybe, given her job, she was more practical and sensible than her carefree employer, and was thinking ahead. I wonder if Lucy was thinking she could go back again, which is why she didn't even take her jewellery. I will have a look at the film, I can't remember what the actress wears. Maybe they used Lucys recorded clothes on Mrs Brown instead as it was the best description of a similar class passenger?
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Brian, Martin,

I am aware that some first-class passengers were dressed to the '9's that night. Perhaps some didn't even bother to retire after dinner time. What strikes me odd about that photo, however, is that she's not wearing any shoes. Yes, true, she could simply have lost them, say, when the water flooded the lounge and overwhelmed her, but . . . The picture just doesn't click right to me as an elegantly dressed first-class passenger, and, as said, there were only four women and one little girl (Lorraine Allison) from that class who perished in the disaster, and this dead girl could be none of them, by process of elimination, so she has to be from either second or third class.

By the way, Martin, where did you obtain your information regarding Molly Brown's attire that night? I would certainly like to look more into that. Thank you.

Take care, all!
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Mar 20, 2007
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As I remember, she's just a long-haired young girl in a voluminous night-gown. She could be from any class - even though she is obviously meant to be in the flooded first-class lounge. Remember the story about the Irish girls from steerage who found themselves in the a la carte restaurant? People wandered all over the ship as it sank.

I don't believe that she's supposed to represent any SPECIFIC person at all - she merely makes a striking (if somewhat macabre) image.

The information about Molly Brown's attire is derived from 'A Night to Remember' by Lord. I'm sure I remember reading elsewhere that she had a large fur muff which she ended up tearing down the middle and draping over a partially-clad fireman in No. 6. Not sure if this is true but it makes a good story and I'd certainly LIKE to believe it.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Yes, I remember the Irish girls. Several stories circulated about steerage wandering about. That's the initial point I made above--that, at the point of the break, the girl could have been from any class.

As for the symbolism, yes, I agree that she serves that purpose well. I'd like to think, though, that Cameron had someone specific in mind for that, and to know what he was thinking.

I read ANTR more than once. The last time was a while ago, so I'm at an apparent loss to remember ever single detail. I have been out of the loop for a while and have just returned to this site after two years, so I am trying to get abreast of everything. Knowledge tends to get a little rusty if you let it slip too long.

Thanks again, Martin.
 

Brian Ahern

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Dec 19, 2002
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As an aside, Martin, did you know that the Harders' descendants have reportedly held on to the coat Dorothy wore off the ship, as well as a hook for her shoes and a flask that the couple saved? Don't know where they are. I know I read this on ET, though don't remember if it was the couple's bios or the message board.

I would say the Cameron movie definitely had the first class women overdressed throughout the voyage, but I don't quarrel with the costumers having done this, as it made the whole thing richer visually to '90's audiences.
 
Mar 20, 2007
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The subject of who wore what and when during the voyage and sinking is one of my favourites...shall we maybe pursue it on a more aptly titled thread? Where would you suggest...?
 
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sashka pozzetti

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I just started an up to date thread, which will hopefully attract some pictures, and concentrate only on actual clothes, pictures of them, or descriptions.
 
Jul 5, 2016
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Really, it could have been a third class girl who was so oblivious to the danger she stole first-class night gown from a cabin and tried it on. Then sat in the lounge, pretending to be first class before the water came in.

Really, it was just a symbolic woman, but out of the four first class ladies, I'll go with Edith Evans. Here's a illustration of Miss Evans, I believe? Looks like a good fit.

edith-corse-evans-titanic-pastel.jpg
 
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Talira Greycrest

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All the 2nd Class children survived, so I'm guessing this passenger is either a 2nd Class woman in her early 20s or a 3rd Class teenager.
 

robert warren

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Feb 19, 2016
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According to Walter Lord, Mrs Astor cleaned up well "looked like a band box in attractive light dress". Mrs Lucian Smith also seemed to have done the same, as there seemed to be "all the time in the world" to get dressed and made up.
 

robert warren

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Actually according to Lord, 1st class was more put together than the rest of the passengers. I think he said "2nd class was less elegantly attired" or something to that extent.
 

Harry Peach

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Jun 26, 2005
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I personally think people are missing a big point that James Camerons film was a work of FICTION based on the real disaster - Rose, Jack and a whole host of fictional Characters were intermingled with real life people.

And therefore I believe In James Cameron's fictional version of Titanic, more than 4 first class women were supposed to have perished - I mean Rose was believed to have 'perished' before she turns up as an 101 year old. I think James Cameron used a huge helping of poetic licence across the whole thing - and probably made a creative decision to have more women die supposedly in the disaster.

So I always took the floating woman to be a first class Passenger who never existed in real. Probably someone who refused to get out of bed until it was too late and caught in only her nightdress didn't make it far from her room before downing - something that could have been very plausible in an alternative universe!

There where a myriad of fictional 3rd class passengers like Cora and her family, Helga Dahl and her family, Tommy, Fabrizio - so why shouldn't there be extra fictional first class passengers we never saw the backstory for who perished
Also James Camerons version there seems to be a lot more women perishing in the sinking scenes (of all classes) then there really were (I think there were 'only' about 110-120 women who actually died on the titanic) but the 1997 film makes it look more like 300-400 - all in the name of looking more dramatic.

Also note the ending dream/death scene where old rose goes 'back to titanic' - there are a number of 'first class' looking women gathered on the staircase - and I do believe JC was suggesting those people were the ones who died on the titanic - as you don't have Ruth, Cal, Molly or any 'survivers' etc returning for that scene.

I mean I didn't know only 4 first class women died in real life until researching some years after watching the film, and if asked after watching the film how many first class women I thought had died - I'd have said 20 or 30. So I think JC and other film makers often buy into that ignorance of the general viewer!

So the floating women = first class but fictional


NB, Trudy, Ruth's maid is a good example of this too, JC kills her off in the film (we see her sliding down the deck during the sinking) and as a first class servant, she'd probably have been listed as a first class passenger - upping the first class female death toll +1 in the film....... so it's easy to see how in JC's mind their would have been more!
 
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Apr 24, 2020
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You make a great point, but the thing is, nobody knows exactly how many people of each class actually died on the Titanic. The numbers that we get today are estimations.

When the Titanic sank in 1912, the newspapers made it sound like many many women also died on the Titanic, thus the men who survived were labeled as cowards by the public, because in the minds of the public those men got into lifeboats while there still ''many many'' women and children onboard the Titanic.

But over the years with more and more investigation and research into the demographics of the Titanic and how many people survived and how many died, the ''official'' number of women who died has been going down significantly.

I guess maybe back when James Cameron did all his research into the Titanic disaster the number of women who died was higher and this may have why he chose to depict a lot of women of all classes perishing in the sinking scenes.

Also many people forget about second class. Films almost only focus on first and third class passengers but they overlook second class passengers and how they dressed like. First class passengers and second class passengers are often grouped together as one in the same. I think it's believed that 20 second class women died. I think people often group those 20 women from second class with the official 4 women from first class who died and thus they conclude that 24 first class women died on the Titanic.

The titanic sank in 1912 back when there were no calculators or electronic accounts. Everything was done with memory and pen and paper. And in a big ship like Titanic it was hard to keep up with everybody. Passengers might have been miscounted or people lied about how many people were in their group.

approximately 1517 people died on the Titanic. But even that number is a modern estimation. Also we tend to only focus only on the popular passengers and the passengers that have Wikipedia articles. But there's hundreds of Titanic victims we know almost nothing about.
 
Mar 18, 2008
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You make a great point, but the thing is, nobody knows exactly how many people of each class actually died on the Titanic. The numbers that we get today are estimations.



approximately 1517 people died on the Titanic. But even that number is a modern estimation.

Actually the exact number is known as we have all names.
There were 1496 deaths and 712 survivors.
 
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Aly Jones

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443 adult women were on broad, out of 715 survivors, how many were women? I agree, not many women died compared to the men.

1- 1700 men, 443 women

2- women had first proity.

3- men were expected to die.

So I understand what op means
 

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