Eino Panula Distant Relation To Sidney Goodwin


Nov 11, 2005
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I read a report of Eino's identification process, and the last two children they looked in to after the Palsson boy, were Eino and Sidney. They said that after finding out both boy's DNA, they discovered that the two shared similiar DNA on the mother's side. The researchers said it was not uncommon that English folk, and Northern folk(Finland and Scandinavians) shared similiar DNA, down the family line, from a couple hundred years ago. Anyone wanna drop a line, because his is making my geneaology research more difficult.
 
Apr 16, 2009
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Ooo, that's interesting. Could be they were distant, quite distant cousins. But then again, then this applies to modern English and Scandinavian children as well, that they share similar DNA.
How did they get hold of Sidney Goodwin's DNA, if he was never found? Just curious. May I read the article, what's its title?

Laura
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Is this where this rumour is starting that the Unknown Child is "really" Sidney Goodwin? Phil Gowan was asking about this on Titanic-Titanic. If anybody has this report, perhaps they could pass it on to him.
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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It might be hard to find anybody with ancestry in Northern and Eastern England who doesn't have genetic components originating from the waves of Scandinavian settlement which began over 1000 years ago. In this case the researchers remarked that the two boys shared certain genetic components. But they shared those components also with 15% of the entire population of Northern Europe. So forget the idea of a family connection.
 

Mike Poirier

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Dec 31, 2004
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I heard about this as soon as the announcement was made officially by Alan Ruffman at the BTS convention in Canada. Apparently he did continue DNA testing after those initial results and from what I gather found relatives of the Goodwin family and came up with a positive match. I am assuming Mr. Ruffman will publishing some sort of article on his findings in the near future as he is the one who did the work.
 
Apr 16, 2009
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Ok, are those the red shoes the baby was recovered with? If yes, even if it has no salt water traces, maybe due to incorrect measures, then measure the shoe's size. Take a 13 month old, a 19 month old, and a 27 month old male child and try to fit the shoes on them. See on which one the shoes fit the most. But maybe the shoes got loose from the water and seem bigger. It could be Urho Panula as well. He is always excluded. What if it's really him, who no one ever thinks about?
Plus, the people who identified victims sometimes made a bad job estimating a 15 year old to be 19. So it could be Urho as well. In addition, I don't trust the technology that dictates we can find because of the tooth material he has to be less than a month old. Yeah right. It was in water, under soil for nearly a century. The hard thing is that Eino, Urho, Gosta, and Sidney had all blond hair and maybe Sidney had blue eyes too. So this makes it even harder.
Poor baby, whoever he is.

Laura
 
Apr 11, 2001
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Of course the little shoes and burial clothing may have been purchased and donated for the child for burial and need not have actually been items owned previously. Poor baby, indeed.
 
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Timothy Trower

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It is theorized that the shoes may actually be those of a child that was killed in a maritime boiler explosion ...

Now, I'm speaking as a man, age 43, who, although not really observant on things such as fashion, can readily tell the difference between a child who is twelve months and another who is nineteen months. We aren't talking about a young adult or an old-timer, but a small child whose very development would have followed closely with the development of any other normally sized child.

If I can tell by looking at a young child how old that one is (and mine are all 18 and over now) then any of the crew on the Mackay-Bennett who had younger children sure as little green apples could have judged how old a child Sidney was.

Shoes, clothes -- it doesn't matter what the child was supposedly dressed in; what does matter is that since the shoes were judged to fit a one-year-old child, only the first DNA marker was tested on Enio. That is where the critical mistake was made, and why after additional prodding the second DNA marker was tested -- showing conclusive proof that it isn't Gosta nor Enio, but Sidney Goodwin buried in the grave of the Unknown Child.

I would like to know when the extended family of Sidney Goodwin will be invited to the grave for a remembrance. Where are the press conferences and media releases? Why is this news leaking out so quietly? The identity of the Unknown Child has been one of the great mysteries of the Titanic; now that it has been solved, not even the ET biographies of Sidney Goodwin nor Enio Panula have been changed to reflect this news.

I'm a bit puzzled.
 

Inger Sheil

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Dec 3, 2000
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The 'Eino' identification was slow in public release too - it was leaked to me privately by a third party (and, I'm sure, to many other researchers) some time before any public announcement was made. Perhaps, given how many errors have been made in this matter, the researchers conducting this investigation want to make sure that they get it right this time, which is why nothing has been published yet by those directly involved? I see from Mike P's post that these new findings have been formally announced at the BTS convention - I'm going to hold off reaching any conclusions until I've seen the published data. That includes holding off criticising those involved. Too many people have leaped to conclusions regarding this child - and have been doing so since 1912, when a newspaper article first suggested the child was Gosta. I'm not associated in any way with this research, I might add, and have ambiguous feelings now about how desirable it was to attempt the identification given how evidently fraught with difficulty it was. That's hindsight, of course.

As for the ET biographies, unless someone directly involved can upload corrections to Phil, perhaps it's best to wait until this confusing matter is cleared up by a formal statement? If anyone has direct and reliable information that can be referenced, they might want to forward it to Phil.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>...unless someone directly involved can upload corrections to Phil, perhaps it's best to wait until this confusing matter is cleared up by a formal statement? <<

I would agree that it is. We're doing a lot of speculating here and that's not necesserily a bad thing, but it's still speculation and we don't know anything first hand.
 
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Timothy Trower

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Michael, you are right ... speculation isn't necessarily a bad thing. But there is no longer any speculation over the identity of Body No. 4.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>But there is no longer any speculation over the identity of Body No. 4.<<

With all due respect, that was what was being claimed a few years ago when the remains were identified as Eino Panula's. I'm not personally wedded to the idea that they are, but I'm going to wait and see what the people doing the research have to say before forming any more opinions.
 
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Timothy Trower

Guest
After rereading this thread, I have a question ... I've heard from people who were at Halifax, and they say there really was no formal announcement of the fact that Sydney Goodwin was now identified as the Unknown Child. If there was such an announcement, when was it made and to what group of people? The questions that made this subject public seem to have started at the cemetary when it was noticed that Enio's tombstone had been removed.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Perhaps the people involved are being careful about how they break the news. Understandable in light of how embarrassing all this has to be. As much as this has been kicked around, I haven't seen a source for all this positively identified anywhere.
 

Steve Santini

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Nov 29, 2000
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Hi,

If the remains are those of the Goodwin child and there was a mistake in the DNA identification work, then the difference in ages of the children will also affect the provenance surrounding the shoes (i.e. differing shoe sizes for differing ages of children).

Last night I went on the web and did a search for all media and news reports relating to the opening of the Unknown Child shoes exhibit.

I found it curious that in many cases the articles contained the wording that the "Unknown Child" was positively identified as Enio with staff at the MMA making no effort, (it seemed), to correct the media representatives and state that a mistake was made in the testing and the child was Goodwin instead.

This all does not look very good and I speculate that when all is said in done there will be some hard questions that will have to be answered about both the DNA testing errors and also the alleged provenance of the shoes on display.

Steve Santini
 

Mike Poirier

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Dec 31, 2004
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Well... I believe Alan Ruffman did speak at the convention. Not so much in the context of the unknown child, but in general. The announcement about the child I think was in an announcement but the subject was not the theme of a lecture. He has given many lectures. Since he was the one that made the initial announcements a few years back- he was the one that revealed that Eino was not the unknown child. Its a shame that so many people have 'sources' that only hear dribs and drabs and are ready to make the announcements without getting all the info which is the subject of the current debate; jumping on something without all the info. As I said before, I am sure Mr. Ruffman will be making all his findings available in the near future.
 

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