Employing people to work onboard the Titanic

[Seumas]

Thank you for your reply. That’s a shame in a way. I find the story of the Titanic fascinating (and utterly tragic of course) and it would’ve been even more moving and personal if one of my ancestors had been on it.

I'm sorry it turned out that.

The only other possible thing I can suggest is to take a look at the crew who signed on for the Titanic's "delivery trip" from Belfast to Southampton - Titanic Delivery Trip Crew | Encyclopedia Titanica

 

[Seumas]

Holly, one additional thought that just occurred to me and which just may turn up something for you is the official list of crewmen who were due to sail with the ship but who asked to be discharged, were taken ill or failed to turn up in time.

Titanic Crew that failed to join the ship

Crew agreement sheet for crew that deserted or failed to join the ship

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org

Might your ancestor have been among the men listed above ?

 

[Yevgen Fox]

Hi, dear members!
Can I ask you to help me find the documents of my grandfather who died on the Titanic?
The fact is that he was a worker on the Titanic and I have been trying to find documentary evidence of this for a long time, but I have not succeeded.
My great-uncle Gedaliye Rabinovich, who in 1904 came from Russia to Ellis Island (USA) and a few years later signed up for work on the Titanic, with whom he died. I have only oral testimony from my aunt and mother, who told me that approximately after 1937 their father, that is, my grandfather, was summoned to the state security authorities in connection with a request from a foreign bar to search for the brother of the deceased sailor of the Titanic. Because of the fear of imminent reprisals, because he had not previously stated to the State Security Service that he had a brother in America, he said that this was a mistake and that he did not have a brother.
I applied to the Legal Collegium of Russia, but they have no information about the events of 80 years ago.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

Hello and welcome to the Encyclopedia Titanica Message Board Yevgen,

Can I ask you to help me find the documents of my grandfather who died on the Titanic?

What was your grandfather's name?

 

[Yevgen Fox]

Hello and welcome to the Encyclopedia Titanica Message Board Yevgen,

What was your grandfather's name?

Hello, my grandfather's name was Mendel Rabinowitz, but his brother - Gedalje Rabinowitz.
I didn't find his name on the crew lists, so it's possible that he had a different name on the ship.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

Hello again Yevgen,

Hello, my grandfather's name was Mendel Rabinowitz, but his brother - Gedalje Rabinowitz.
I didn't find his name on the crew lists, so it's possible that he had a different name on the ship.

Since your grandfather's name is not on the crew lists, then that means he was not on board. Every single member of the crew was from the United Kingdom; not one was from Russia or traveling under an assumed name.

 

[Yevgen Fox]

Hello again Yevgen,

Since your grandfather's name is not on the crew lists, then that means he was not on board. Every single member of the crew was from the United Kingdom; not one was from Russia or traveling under an assumed name.

But he was from America and had an American passport. He was under a name that he changed when he received an American ID card. Many immigrants did this, and it was allowed. In addition, there were many people on the Titanic, for various reasons, not under their own names, both among the passengers and among the crew members.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

But he was from America and had an American passport. He was under a name that he changed when he received an American ID card. Many immigrants did this, and it was allowed. In addition, there were many people on the Titanic, for various reasons, not under their own names, both among the passengers and among the crew members.

That may be so, but the crew lists don't lie. Plus the White Star Line did not hire people from other countries, to work on board their ships. I've seen this sort of thing too many times over the years; as much you want your grandfather to have been aboard the Titanic, the fact remains he wasn't.

 

[Yevgen Fox]

Dear Mr. Jason D. Tiller, I repeat to you again and again that what matters to me is the meritorious and life path of my relative, and not whether he was or was not on the Titanic. The story about his appearance on the Titanic arose after my mother's father, tentatively in 1937-1938, was called in by the state security authorities for questioning about the deceased sailor, who used the name of her brother as the heir in the insurance policy. That's all. Now, thanks to your clarification, I will intensify my search for representatives at the Ellis Islands Museum and the US Immigration Department. I really appreciate your help and wish you every success! Yours sincerely.

 

[Thomas Krom]

Hello Jason,

Plus the White Star Line did not hire people from other countries, to work on board their ships.

That is not entirely true my friend. Among the White Star Line crew there were numerous people from outside the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, let me give you all their names:

First class barber Augustus Henry Weikman (1860-1924): American

Third class steward Matthew Leonard (1886-1912): American

Second class purser Clerk Donald Samuel Campbell (1884-1912): Australian

First class stewardess Evelyn Marsden (1883-1938): Australian

Boatswain Albert William Stanley Nichols (1864-1912): Australian

First class saloon steward Leonard Lile Oliver White (1880-1912): Australian

First class bedroom steward Henry Wittman (1873-1912): Austrian-Hungerian (modern day Austria)

Fireman William McCastlin (1883-1912): Canadian

Second class saloon steward William Edwy Ryerson (1878-1949): Canadian (and distant cousin of first class passenger Arthur Ryerson)

Fireman Nicolas Joas (1873-1912): Cape Verdean (?)

Second class saloon steward Charles Valdermar Jensen (1887-1912): Danish

Fireman Wessel Adrianus van der Brugge (1873-1912): Dutch (a countryman of mine)

Second class saloon steward Joseph Dominkus Heinen (1882-1912): German

Fireman Frederik/Friedrich Kasper (1872-1942?): German

Second class saloon steward Richard Paul Josef Pfropper (1882-1964): German

First class bedroom steward Franz Alfred Daniel Maximilian Theissinger (1865-1949): German

A fired second class saloon steward named Peter Ettlinger (1881-1962): German

Trimmer Antonio Ferrary (1879-1912): Mexican (?)

Printer steward Ibrāhīm Mansūr Mish'alānī/ Abraham Mansoor Mishellany (1858-1912): Ottoman (modern day Syria)

Hebrew/Kosher cook Charles Kennell (1882-1912): South African

Sous-chef Alexis Joseph Bochatay (1881-1912) : Swiss

Second class stewardess Emma Bliss (1866-1959): Swiss

21 crewmembers who were on-board her maiden voyage were foreigners in all three departments



Based on this I wouldn’t rule out Yevgen’s claims just yet and believe they may be worth looking into deeper. As an iceberg there may is more to it after all.


Kind regards,

Thomas

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

Dear Mr. Jason D. Tiller, I repeat to you again and again that what matters to me is the meritorious and life path of my relative, and not whether he was or was not on the Titanic. The story about his appearance on the Titanic arose after my mother's father, tentatively in 1937-1938, was called in by the state security authorities for questioning about the deceased sailor, who used the name of her brother as the heir in the insurance policy. That's all. Now, thanks to your clarification, I will intensify my search for representatives at the Ellis Islands Museum and the US Immigration Department. I really appreciate your help and wish you every success! Yours sincerely.

Please call me Jason. Your grandfather may have been aboard another ship entirely. Again, I have seen this kind of thing many times over the years where a story that has been passed down in a family stating that a relative was aboard the Titanic, when in fact they were aboard an entirely different ship. I wish you all the best in your continued search, but I suggest you keep that in mind when researching.

That is not entirely true my friend. Among the White Star Line crew there were numerous people from outside the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, let me give you all their names:

Thank you for that list Thomas and of course, you are correct. To clarify though, what I should have said was that a majority of the crew hailed from the UK. If information comes to light that Yevgen's grandfather was actually on board then that's great but for me right now, I see it as a tall tale.

 

[Yevgen Fox]

Hello Jason,

That is not entirely true my friend. Among the White Star Line crew there were numerous people from outside the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, let me give you all their names:

First class barber Augustus Henry Weikman (1860-1924): American

Third class steward Matthew Leonard (1886-1912): American

Second class purser Clerk Donald Samuel Campbell (1884-1912): Australian

First class stewardess Evelyn Marsden (1883-1938): Australian

Boatswain Albert William Stanley Nichols (1864-1912): Australian

First class saloon steward Leonard Lile Oliver White (1880-1912): Australian

First class bedroom steward Henry Wittman (1873-1912): Austrian-Hungerian (modern day Austria)

Fireman William McCastlin (1883-1912): Canadian

Second class saloon steward William Edwy Ryerson (1878-1949): Canadian (and distant cousin of first class passenger Arthur Ryerson)

Fireman Nicolas Joas (1873-1912): Cape Verdean (?)

Second class saloon steward Charles Valdermar Jensen (1887-1912): Danish

Fireman Wessel Adrianus van der Brugge (1873-1912): Dutch (a countryman of mine)

Second class saloon steward Joseph Dominkus Heinen (1882-1912): German

Fireman Frederik/Friedrich Kasper (1872-1942?): German

Second class saloon steward Richard Paul Josef Pfropper (1882-1964): German

First class bedroom steward Franz Alfred Daniel Maximilian Theissinger (1865-1949): German

A fired second class saloon steward named Peter Ettlinger (1881-1962): German

Trimmer Antonio Ferrary (1879-1912): Mexican (?)

Printer steward Ibrāhīm Mansūr Mish'alānī/ Abraham Mansoor Mishellany (1858-1912): Ottoman (modern day Syria)

Hebrew/Kosher cook Charles Kennell (1882-1912): South African

Sous-chef Alexis Joseph Bochatay (1881-1912) : Swiss

Second class stewardess Emma Bliss (1866-1959): Swiss

21 crewmembers who were on-board her maiden voyage were foreigners in all three departments



Based on this I wouldn’t rule out Yevgen’s claims just yet and believe they may be worth looking into deeper. As an iceberg there may is more to it after all.


Kind regards,

Thomas

Dear Thomas,
I am very grateful to you for this message and I hope that it will help in the search for my great uncle. Unfortunately, I cannot find lists of simple working sailors such as stokers, cleaners and the like. I assume that my relative was just a worker without a specialty, due to the fact that at that moment, he could not know English well. Once again, I thank you and all members of the community for your help in the search.
Yours sincerely
Yevgen

 

[Yevgen Fox]

But he was from America and had an American passport. He was under a name that he changed when he received an American ID card. Many immigrants did this, and it was allowed. In addition, there were many people on the Titanic, for various reasons, not under their own names, both among the passengers and among the crew members.

Hello Jason and Thomas and all other members of the society.
So, I found my great-uncle's new name, which he got through naturalization.
This name is Gilbert Robin.
I am attaching screenshots of these documents. I ask you to help me in my search.
Warm regards