Empress of Ireland Passenger List

[Brian Ahern]

I see last year there was a discussion on Charles Bowes-Lyon and how closely he was related to the Queen Mum (nee Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon). I finally got around to tracing this, and it turns out they were very closely related. Their fathers were brothers and only a year apart in age. They had a common grandfather in the 14th Earl of Strathmore (Charles B-L's other grandfather was also an earl).

 

[Brian Ahern]

Actually - correction: their common grandfather was the 13th Earl. The 14th Earl was the Queen Mum's father.

Charles Bowes-Lyon's other grandfather was the Earl of Balcarres.

 

[Zachary Schwarz]

Does anyone know what Merton Darling, the Grahams, and Joseph Cox-Edwards did that had them living/traveling from such foreign places such as China, Hong Kong, and Japan. Mr. and Mrs. Graham must have been frequent travelers because they were married in Japan.

 

[Geoff Whitfield]

Zach,

Walter Graham was a commission agent based in Hong Kong. They had lived there for several years.
Merton Darling and Joseph Cox-Edwards were both simply on business trips.

Geoff

 

[Zachary Schwarz]

Here is an interesting link if anyone is interested: The Barnes and Mullins Story. It is about the company started by victim Albert E. Mullins.

 

[Hildur Panula-Heinonen]

Does anyone know what Margaret Fisher's(2nd class, lost)son was named either Wilfred or Herbert? I have seperate books with both these names in the place of her son's name. Does anyone know which one is his first?

 

[Geoff Whitfield]

Hidur,

He was Wilfred. The next passenger on the CPR list was Herbert Foard and somehow the two have become confused.

Geoff

 

[Hildur Panula-Heinonen]

Oh, that you very much Geoff. I have a question that is bothering me.
Okay so when Titanic sank, children were considered to be under 12. When Lusitania sank, the age seems to have raised.
Arvo Markkula was 14 and listed as a child, and is included as such. Can anyone give me some information on this? It's really bothering me. What was the recorded/considered child age is it was not 12?
And does anyone have ages for the children? I have only a few recorded ages for children.

 

[Craig Stringer]

Hi Hildur,

I see that the 'Empress bug' has bitten you. Good luck with your research.

David Zeni, Geoff Whitfield and I have done quite extensive research into the Empress over the last few years, and in that time I have never come across a passenger list that gives the ages of everyone on board. In many cases, the names given are very vague, just as you have found with examples such as Infant McGachen.

As for children, there were four in first class, 32 in second class and 102 in third class. I have identified 100 of the third class children, and all the first and second class. The identities of many have come through hunting through newspapers worldwide.

Best wishes
Craig

 

[Hildur Panula-Heinonen]

Hm, i have found 3/4 in 1st class, 26/32 second class and about half of third, totaling 100 child identities in all. I am short by 32.
Do you know why the ages were so different? Were you considered a child up to 14 and not 12?

 

[Craig Stringer]

Hi Hildur,

As far as I am aware the age for children on the Empress was 12 the same as the Titanic. I know you have Arvo Markkula as a child, but I suspect he held an adult ticket. The term child becomes very confusing because it was used by different groups to mean different things. Officially a child was a child until 12 on the Empress, but the press and wider public did not make the same distinction. My advice, for what it is worth, would be to use 12 as your cut off point.
Hope that helps
Craig

 

[Hildur Panula-Heinonen]

If we were to use 12, would our number be the same as the official number on Empress? I think it would change.

 

[Craig Stringer]

Hi Hildur,

I have used 12 as the cut off, and still get the correct numbers of children.

Regards
Craig