Engineering after the collision


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Aaron_2016

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I've been on ships that have been "Crash stopped" and there's never any mistaking the rattling, shuddering vibration for what it is when it happens, NONE of which was noted or observed on the Titanic,


Joseph Scarrott said - "It seemed as if the ship shook in the same manner as if the engines had been suddenly reversed to full speed astern, just the same sort of vibration, enough to wake anybody up if they were asleep."

Other survivors described a tremble feeling throughout the ship. I have heard that torpedo impacts against battleships are felt throughout the entire ship as the shockwave travels across the superstructure and cause the vessel to jump, but on merchant / passenger ships the impact is more localised and the area of impact absorbs the shockwave owing to their different design structure. I guess it depends on the size and design of each vessel. My cousin served on merchant ships back in the 1960's and he said when his ship lost a propeller blade it caused the whole ship to tremble and the stern to bounce, but when the Olympic lost her blade 3 times the passengers barely noticed it, and only a few were woken up by the sensation. I believe the Titanic's size and design make her unique in the sense that we don't really know how she would have reacted.

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B-rad

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From the evidence we can gather such about any telegraph orders:

Boxhall: FULL SPEED ASTERN before collision

Dillon: Heard telegraph before 2sec before 'shock' cannot say what.

Hichens: Heard telegraph before collision cannot say what (in wheel house)



Hichens: Telegraph order immediately after collision

Dillon: STOP 1 ½ min. after shock

Scott: STOP after collision does not state time



Dillon: SLOW ASTERN ½ min. after STOP

Scott: SLOW AHEAD 10-15 min. after STOP



Dillon: STOP 2 min. after SLOW ASTERN

Scott: STOP 10 min after SLOW AHEAD



Dillon: SLOW AHEAD no time given

Scott: SLOW ASTERN 4-5 min after stop



Dillon: STOP 2min after SLOW AHEAD

Scott: STOP 5min after SLOW ASTERN



As far as WTD we have Barrette who claims to have made it from boiler room 6 to boiler room 5 “before” the doors broke. We then have Beauchamp who claims they went within 5 min of the collision and then Dillon who said they went 3 min after shock. Overall there seems to have been a delay according to witnesses below decks, while those on deck like Boxhall, Olliver and Hichens (who only knows based on Murdoch speaking to Smith as he himself could not see Murdoch at WTD control) make the WTD activating immediately after collision.
 

Stephen Carey

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I think I can help you here, being reasonably conversant with the machinery of the ship (I have written a document on how to start it from cold if anyone's interested - this outlines all the machinery operations that need to be carried out in order to put to sea from dead ship).

As the ship was "Full Away on Passage" (FAOP), all systems would have been geared to running the main machinery. As you state, the main generators would have been exhausting to the contact feed heater situated high in the engineroom in order to give the required NPSH for the boiler feed pumps. The main reciprocating engines would have been exhausting via the LP turbine to the condensers, which in turn were fed with seawater by the main seawater pumps, and the condensate extracted by the dry/wet air pumps (known these days as air ejector and condensate pumps respectively).

The ringing of the telegraph from the bridge to "STOP" would have caused some consternation down below (it still does today), and the watch engineers would have immediately swung the throttles to STOP on both engines, at the same time operating the Browns engines to switch the exhaust valves over from the turbine to the condensers. On receipt of the STOP from the bridge, another action would have been to also signal STOP on the boiler room telegraphs. These, and the stoking indicators, were operated by the watchkeeping engineers in order to keep the requisite steam generation required for full sea revolutions.
upload_2017-10-2_16-31-2.png

This would have transmitted the same consternation to the boiler room engineers and staff, and this is shown in the movies where the Leading Stoker shouts out to close dampers in order to reduce steam production. All the double ended boilers were used for driving the main engines, whereas the single ended ones could handle the main and auxiliary generators in port (called "hotel services"). To go to STOP from FULL AHEAD with firetube boilers would indubitably cause the lifting of the safety valves on all the boilers in order to vent the steam elsewhere than to the main engines. I think this was accurately described in the Cameron movie, as I have been in that situation myself on more than one occasion.
The Chief Engineer would have reported to the Captain once things had settled down below, and would be fully expecting to carry on with the voyage. The main generators would still be exhausting to the contact feed heater (not the surface feed heater), so without the feed to the boilers (this was manual, not via automatic feed regulators), live steam would have to be added to the heater in order not to cool the feed water too much, which would affect the boilers if FULL AHEAD had been signalled within a short time.

We don't know what passed between the Captain and the Chief, but having been a Chief Engineer myself, and hearing that the ship was going to sink, I would have been straight down below again to issue instructions. Knowing that the main engines would never run again, the first thing to do is to switch the main generators on to the auxiliary condenser. This was supplied with steam driven seawater and air pumps, which would have been quite quick to set up in the normal way. My theory - in view of where this equipment is situated on the ship (starboard side of the reciprocating engine room) was that it was the discharge from this pump overboard that suddenly started up and nearly flooded one of the starboard aft lifeboats. This can be seen in the Titanic Sinking in Real Time video. The main seawater pumps and dry/wet air pumps could then be shut down as they consumed a fair bit of steam. The engineers would also know that they had to keep steam up in as many boilers as possible, but I would think that the steam still in the drums of the boilers from BR 4 back to BR 2 would have been more than sufficient.
upload_2017-10-2_16-54-15.png

Drawing - Bruce Beveridge from Titanica site

The Olympic Class didn't have an Emergency Generator as such, as the Auxiliary Generators (sometimes referred to as Emergency Generators) were still steam driven, and not diesel like in subsequent ships. These two small 30kW engines were run regularly to keep them drained and ready to start, and were used for testing various electrical kit around the ship such as the radio system, lighting etc. The Chief would have instructed the engineers to start these two sets up (depending on what the lighting load was - possibly only one was required) and to shut down the main generators as they would not be needed for the rest of the life of the ship, in order to save steam. The engineroom is now running on the Auxiliary Generators, the only steam consumers being the Auxiliary condenser seawater and air pumps. Little if any boiler feed water would need to be transferred to the boilers with such a large reserve of steam. With no fires lit, water level was not important, and would only have served to reduce the steam pressure.

The boilers: As the water gradually passed to and flooded each boiler room, a few engineers would have been posted above the boilers to swing boiler stops (valves to close off a boiler) and the isolation valves on the steam lines provided for redundancy in just this eventuality. Here - copyright Sam Halpern - is the arrangement of the steam lines from the boilers -
upload_2017-10-2_16-58-27.png

From this excellent drawing (I must ask Sam where the original came from...) you can see how the redundancy was built into the system. It's actually a lot of redundancy, so someone really though this one out. If we assume that the engineers have isolated boiler rooms 6 and 5 at this time (water in both, via the damage to the side plating, fires drawn), then our auxiliary generators can be fed from BR 3 via the direct purple line shown between bulkheads G&H, with BR 4 supplying the steam lines until isolated due to further flooding of the boiler room, leaving only BRs 3&2. The green main generator lines would all be isolated at this point. There is now very little for the engineers to remain below for, and one of the firemen reported that they and most of the engineers were sent up top. One said that "All the engineers were up top, I saw Mr Farquharson (2/E) up there" or words to that effect. If I was the Chief, I would have kept two or three of the engineers there besides myself, a few firemen to draw the fires (no need to shovel coal as there was such a huge reserve of steam), and possibly an electrician at the switchboard to carry out isolations when fittings shorted out due to rising water. All they had to do was wait, make sure the auxiliary pumps carried on working, and keep an eye on the steam isolation valves as the water gradually filled the ship.
Once BR 3 started to flood, the stops would have been shut, and the isolation line valve (purple) to the auxiliaries also closed, leaving the one open from boiler room 2. I would have thought about the steam demand and maybe shared the boilers in BR 2 between the main steam lines to the auxiliary condenser pumps (maybe one or two boilers on the starboard side), with the remaining three boilers on the purple line between WTB J&H to the generators. Possibly and to save on manpower, it would have been even better (if such a word can be used in this situation) to shut down that line as well, and feed the auxiliary generators from the purple line coming from the main lines in the reciprocating engineroom. By this time there was nothing more the engineers left below could do but sit there and wait. Once the aft end started to rise out of the water, it would have been nigh on impossible to evacuate anyway, though I would think they would have tried.

The lights are still on via the emergency switchboard, reliant on either the sea suctions for the auxiliary pumps coming out of the water (they were still submerged right to the end, even though the main suctions were well out of the water by this time (good design, though maybe with hindsight)) or loss of steam by either decaying pressure, or - as I believe actually happened - the steam lines fracturing as the ship broke in two. The survivors who stated the lamps glowed for a few seconds could have been the generators winding down. The "explosions" heard could have been the steam lines rupturing (the red ones in the drawing), as a "sudden release of pressure" is pretty much the definition of an explosion.

Some have mentioned boilers exploding when in contact with seawater, for both Lusitania and Titanic, but to me, seawater suddenly flooding of a boiler room cools a boiler such that a vacuum forms inside. This would cause an implosion rather than an explosion if the boiler shell couldn't take the vacuum, and there are videos on YT of 45 gallon drums filled with steam and sprayed with water doing just that.

PS: I have written starting documents for the following ships, if anyone wants a pdf copy -
Olympic class (with notes on the Titanic sinking)
Mauretania
Aquitania
Empress of Britain
Normandie
Queen Mary (not yet started - the book is buried in our move from Malaysia...)
 
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Rancor

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Hey Codad1946,

Many thanks for your extremely detailed reply, this is exactly what I was looking for.

I have read your article on the cold start up procedure of the Titanic and the other ships, all excellent articles, thanks for sharing your expertise!

Regarding the dynamo condensers, looking at this drawing also from Sam Halpern, if this is correct it shows the dynamos exhausting into the surface heater, where the steam was condensed using the feed water returning from the main condensers. With main engines stopped and the feed water supply presumably also stopping, I assume it was just the reserve water in the hotwell tanks that would keep the surface heater operating until they switched to the auxiliary condenser?

image021.jpg


I'm interested that you suggest shutting down the main gensets and running on auxiliaries only... was 60kW enough to run the entire lighting load of the ship? Also from my reading it seems that the auxiliary dynamos were 'hardwired' to dedicated emergency lights throughout the ship. There didn't seem to be an arrangement for linking them up with the main switchboard. If the main dynamos really were shut down and all that was left to light the ship were the emergency lights I'd be a bit surprised why some of the survivors didn't mention this. Feel free to correct me here though!

The description of the steam supply system and progressive isolation as boiler rooms flooded is very interesting. It seems they managed exceptionally well especially under stressful conditions in maintaining the steam supply until the breakup.

Out of interest, if you had to keep at least one of the main dynamos running, would this change the steam feed setup much?

Very keen on your cold start up procedures, I think I have read most of them but was hoping to re-read some the other day and couldn't locate the website. If you could post a link I'd be very grateful.

Thanks all posters for your replies thus far.

Rancor.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>Joseph Scarrott said - "It seemed as if the ship shook in the same manner as if the engines had been suddenly reversed to full speed astern, just the same sort of vibration, enough to wake anybody up if they were asleep."<<

The problem with that is it didn't wake people up. The vast majority of the crew and passengers slept right through this. The simple fact of the matter is that they didn't have time to reverse the engines during the course of the accident itself. Nobody was in place or ready to everything which had to be done for sudden engine order changes.
 

B-rad

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Reply to rancor

PS: I have written starting documents for the following ships, if anyone wants a pdf copy -
Olympic class (with notes on the Titanic sinking)
Mauretania
Aquitania
Empress of Britain
Normandie
Queen Mary (not yet started - the book is buried in our move from Malaysia...)

Can I take you up on the Olympic class one? I'm going to be staying on the Queen Mary in April next year, so if you finish such before that would be an excellent treasure to take along.
 
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Sadly the senior Engineers at the manoeuvring platforms, adjacent to the main engine room telegraphs did not survive, so there is no testimony as to there actions and probably no record made in the movements books as the ship was not expecting to have a collision.
One can only speculate on the action that may possibly have been taken.
With the sudden telegraph order to 'Stop' on both engines (maybe a double ring indicating urgency) the Senior engineer moves the repeater handle over to reply.
The Regulator/Throttle on both engines then moved to shut off steam to the main engine cylinders and at the same time the lever to the change-over valves would be activated such that the steam from the main engine exhausts directly to the condenser, by-passing the LP Exhaust turbine.
The Boiler Room telegraphs, those like traffic light type indicators are flagged up to slow/stop stoking from the main platforms.
Should there be a Telegraph order for Half or Full Astern then the following will have to be executed.
The main engines will have to come to a stop before the manoeuvring platform Ahead/Astern lever will be moved from Ahead to astern-this operates the Stephenson's Reverse-link mechanism, then the Regular opened, which admits steam to the other side of the pistons.
When the engines were suddenly stopped a great deal of steam would have been 'dumped' into the condenser and the pressure in all boilers would rise thus causing the safety valves to lift and exhaust up through the steam pipes to the funnels.
These actions are pure speculative, but hopefully indicative of what might have happened so unexpectedly on that night.
The steam reciprocating engines used in the film Titanic were of the Liberty ship Jeremiah O' Brian, CGI ed, Mirrored and enlarged.
 
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Apr 30, 2009
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G'day Codad 1946,
I like your use of the word 'redundancy' which is more common to USN parlance. Over here in the UK it is a euphemism for the sack.. In the film 'Crimson Tide' Denzil Washington speaks of the redundancy of the different systems in the US nuclear submarine. You ask where Sam (Samuel Halpern) gets his illustrations from; he actually draws the schematics up himself and they are very comprehensive and informative
I would like your start up procedure for the Olympic and if possible the Mauretania, they will add further knowledge to the engine room workings, but there is no panic. Thank you in anticipation. RdeK.
 

Stephen Carey

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Apr 25, 2016
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Hey Codad1946,

Many thanks for your extremely detailed reply, this is exactly what I was looking for.

I have read your article on the cold start up procedure of the Titanic and the other ships, all excellent articles, thanks for sharing your expertise!

Regarding the dynamo condensers, looking at this drawing also from Sam Halpern, if this is correct it shows the dynamos exhausting into the surface heater, where the steam was condensed using the feed water returning from the main condensers. With main engines stopped and the feed water supply presumably also stopping, I assume it was just the reserve water in the hotwell tanks that would keep the surface heater operating until they switched to the auxiliary condenser?

View attachment 38667

I'm interested that you suggest shutting down the main gensets and running on auxiliaries only... was 60kW enough to run the entire lighting load of the ship? Also from my reading it seems that the auxiliary dynamos were 'hardwired' to dedicated emergency lights throughout the ship. There didn't seem to be an arrangement for linking them up with the main switchboard. If the main dynamos really were shut down and all that was left to light the ship were the emergency lights I'd be a bit surprised why some of the survivors didn't mention this. Feel free to correct me here though!

The description of the steam supply system and progressive isolation as boiler rooms flooded is very interesting. It seems they managed exceptionally well especially under stressful conditions in maintaining the steam supply until the breakup.

Out of interest, if you had to keep at least one of the main dynamos running, would this change the steam feed setup much?

Very keen on your cold start up procedures, I think I have read most of them but was hoping to re-read some the other day and couldn't locate the website. If you could post a link I'd be very grateful.

Thanks all posters for your replies thus far.

Rancor.

Hmm - that was a mistake where I said the contact feed heater (probably mixed it up with one of the other ships...), it was the surface feed heater as you (and Sam) state.
It may be that the auxiliary generators only lit the emergency lighting, but we only have the movies with the ship all lit up to go on? Perhaps they did keep at least one main generator going on the auxiliary condenser; whilst they were 400kW each, there were little or no electrically operated machines on the ship, so most of the load would have been galley and lighting, with the latter the only load by the time she was sinking. As to whether 60kW would run many lights, if each bulb was 60W, then that's 1000 bulbs throughout the ship. Seems quite a lot, though if they were only on the emergency circuits, I doubt many of the cabin lights would have showed through the ports, as emergency lighting only lights switchboards, the top and bottom of accessways, and corridor lights at certain intervals (plus the ship's navigation lights and radio). A shame there's no electrical drawing as for Empress of Britain and Normandie!
Thinking about modern ships, there's about 2MW of "hotel load" on a cruise ship, maybe more, but of course Titanic's systems were pretty rudimentary and of course DC, so a lot more current hungry than modern AC ships.
I've just checked with good old google, and he(she?) promises me that there were around 10,000 light bulbs on the ship, so it seems that the auxiliary generator would not have powered that lot - all assuming that the ship was as lit as the movies show! Who knows, but I think in future I will stick to one main generator going instead of the - almost useless - auxiliaries...

As to the feed system, I would think that as the fires were put out as the water encroached into each boiler room, they would have relied on the reserve of steam in the boiler drums. Even with only boiler room 2 still functional, that was 5 double ended units with a head of steam. I'd have to try and remember how much steam is required for 400kW to work out if it would be enough, but that's a bit too much detail I think. To avoid killing the steam in the boilers, it's not a good idea to pump cold water into them. On startup, the contact heater often didn't have enough exhaust steam to heat the feed water, so live steam was added to avoid cold-shocking the boilers. If the remaining boilers weren't fired (and I can't remember anyone like Barret saying that they were (anyone here know?)), then the feed system could be shut down with only the auxiliary condenser providing the vacuum to operate a main generator without any feed heaters on line. With the main condensers shut down, there would be no condensate from them either, so the system would be the same as during the cold start operations. As for changing over, the main system would be online until changed to the auxiliary system. With no water fed to the boilers, the condensate from the main condensers could be pumped via the surface heater Mono pump to the contact heater and thence to drain. Without a set of ship's drawings (more's the pity), that seems reasonable...

PS I have posted the latest Titanic Starting missive to you via your message today. I think the others were on Earl of Cruise, and are now out of date as I have added "atmosphere" to them. Smell the steam... The next update will have better scans in as I have bought the Bruce Beveridge drawings, but need to ask him if it's OK to replicate them in my stuff.
 
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Stephen Carey

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Can I take you up on the Olympic class one? I'm going to be staying on the Queen Mary in April next year, so if you finish such before that would be an excellent treasure to take along.

Here you go Brad - you've given me a deadline for the QM! I am endeavouring to finish the rest-house on our farm, whence I can sit there, lord of all I survey, and write it up... Now where's that box?

Stephen
 

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Stephen Carey

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G'day Codad 1946,
I like your use of the word 'redundancy' which is more common to USN parlance. Over here in the UK it is a euphemism for the sack.. In the film 'Crimson Tide' Denzil Washington speaks of the redundancy of the different systems in the US nuclear submarine. You ask where Sam (Samuel Halpern) gets his illustrations from; he actually draws the schematics up himself and they are very comprehensive and informative
I would like your start up procedure for the Olympic and if possible the Mauretania, they will add further knowledge to the engine room workings, but there is no panic. Thank you in anticipation. RdeK.

Richard, I have your book on the Black Gang - very informative and a damn good read! I used it to cement my knowledge of the Black Gang and all their workings - it was good to find someone who thought the same way as I do. I didn't plagiarise anything as far as I know...
As a marine systems designer by trade, I intend to draw up as many schematics as I can for these ships (where there is enough information), but it's not easy without the original ship's drawings, which is why I don't know where Sam got his original ones from. In the Mauretania doc attached you'll see a hand sketch of the seawater and feed system, which I intend to flesh out with flow rates and piping sizes, and draw up in CAD at a later date - if I can find the time... I guess as far as the piping goes, I will just rely on experience of the systems I've built in the past for modern ships.
I am also a Brit, and the term "redundancy" is used in the Oil & Gas industry, (which I worked in after leaving the sea, designing warships etc) which is of course American oriented. After 13 years in O&G I suppose terms like "3x50% or 4x33% redundancy" become common parlance to me, but as you say, it means getting the boot in UK. As I have jumped from melting ice-floe to melting ice-floe from Canadian Pacific, via a computer company, via Swan Hunter, via Vosper, I know all about it...
Attached are Titanic/Olympic and Mauretania starting docs. I would appreciate your comments.

Stephen
 

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Stephen Carey

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I'd have to agree with David that for myself the battle to keep the ship afloat as long as possible and keep the power going until the last few moments are some of the most interesting and undertold aspects of the tragedy. There is the 2012 'Saving The Titanic' telemovie that paints a pretty good picture of what could have taken place, notwithstanding the talk of the turbine providing electrical power for the ship.

Given no one from the engineering crew survived we will never know exactly what happened but it is interesting to speculate and I look forward to reading what the many experts on the forums here may think.

Thanks!

What surprised me was that they didn't get the Chief Engineer from Olympic in to the Enquiry - he could have cleared up many of the questions asked of the surviving firemen, most of whom were barely literate and certainly wouldn't know much about the engineering of the ship. Or was it deliberate to exclude him?
I enjoyed the movie "Saving the Titanic", despite a few obvious dramatic touches which I considered were unnecessary.
As an ex seagoing Chief Engineer, it's interesting for me to think what I would have done. Whilst I was still under the impression that we could save the ship, all available pumps would have been going on the water coming into Nr5 boiler room in an attempt to keep her afloat, up until Andrews told me that she couldn't float with Nr6 flooded, let along 5 as well. It was then a case of damage litigation and shutting down any systems (mainly those for the main engines which I would have known would never run again) and conserving what steam was in the boilers for running the minimal equipment, which was a generator, the auxiliary seawater pump and the auxiliary air pump to serve the auxiliary condenser. I would have then sent the 2nd engineer and most of the other engineers up top as they would not be needed, just myself, a 3rd and 4th engineer, an electrician, a couple of fivers and maybe a greaser or two. As Bell did, most of the stokehold staff would be sent up top as no longer needed with all fires drawn. I doubt I would have thought that my life was going to end until there was no hope of getting out at the angle the engineroom was at by the time of the final plunge. Hold your breath and hang on...
This is borne out by one of the firemen (Dillon?) saying he saw most of the engineers, including Farquarson the 2nd, up top before she went down.

I'm intrigued about using the turbine for electrical power, I never noticed that in the movie? I'll have to watch it again...
 
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Stephen Carey

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Looking at photos of the Olympic there certainly was a lot of water being fed out. Was this a common procedure to make the ship lighter when in port? Were the engineers busy turning gears and valves when these photos were taken? Would Titanic's engineers have utilized these valves to pump out as much water as they could as some of them may have bailed the water out of the Olympic in the same manner when she began to flood during her accident in 1911?


Courtesy of 'Britain from Above'.

View attachment 38658

.

That's a nice picture. To answer your question, there is indeed a lot of water coming out of a ship of this vintage, and these can be summarised as follows -
Grey water and black water drainage (toilets and bathrooms - black water these days has to go through a sewage treatment unit, though grey water can still be discharged overboard. That's likely to change in the near future). In those days it all went over the side, sometimes into the tenders...
Bilge water: Not normally discharged in port even in those days, though it wasn't prohibited (even in my early days at sea we had a connection to overboard from the fuel oil transfer pump!)
Ballast: Not a lot of ballast on these ships, though water tanks in the double bottom could be used to trim the ship (ie fore and aft, not port and starboard), though such small quantities would not make a lot of difference. As far as I know, there were no ballast tanks on Titanic apart from possibly the fore and after peaks.
Scuppers: Scuppers are deck drains which drain directly overboard either through freeing ports or short tubes to a discharge in the ship's side. They discharge rainwater and washing down water.
Auxiliary seawater overboard: This is a fairly large overboard, and is the discharge from the auxiliary condenser which was used in port by ships such as Titanic, Mauretania and Aquitania, with the main condenser shut down as it was mainly for propulsion. Later hp steam ships such as Empress of Britain (1931) had steam turbine generators, which exhausted into a main condenser, necessitating the main seawater pump(s) to be run all the time, including in port.
Main seawater overboard: This is the large volume of seawater that can still be seen today issuing from the side of steamships (and motorships for that matter), which is in the order of 5,000t/hr through a 1.2m diameter overboard discharge. That's pretty big and is quite obvious. Titanic had two of these, one each side for the tandem main seawater pumps.
Anchor wash: The deckwash system (often the firemain in earlier ships) was used for washing down, and also had a connection to the hawsepipes in order to wash mud off the anchor and chain as it was brought home. Often the mud was oblivious to the anchor wash, resulting in a smelly muddy chain locker, which could also be washed out and pumped overboard at a later date as it had a perforated steel floor. The anchor wash is often left on in port if the water is from the firewater pump, in order to avoid dead-heading the pump. It's useful especially on a tanker where you don't want to crack open a firemain valve as that will flood the deck and any oil spills will wash over the sides as the scuppers on the main deck are plugged in port on tankers.
Winch Cooling: Not on Titanic, but ships with hydraulic deck machinery have an oil cooler fed with seawater which has an overboard forward and aft for the windlass and mooring winches.

Can't think of any more offhand, but apart from ballast pumps, none of the above are used to "lighten" the ship. Cargo ships have large ballast pumps (nominally around 2000t/hr) in order to ballast the ship down when no cargo is carried. The pumps also discharge the ballast as the ship is loaded.
 
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Aaron_2016

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Cheers. I have not seen the transcripts for the 1911 Olympic collision Inquiry. Possibly the chief engineer was questioned about the pumps as her compartments took on water? The British Titanic Inquiry mentions the inspection of the Olympic by the Attorney General where he was shown a controlled flooding of her turbine room. Does that mean they could turn certain valves and allow water to flood into a dry compartment?


UK Titanic Inquiry


Edward Wilding - Naval Architect for Harland and Wolff

Q - There was one matter about the float. You know the float which operates all the watertight bulkheads?
A - Yes.
(Mr. Laing) There was some little difficulty about explaining that, and Mr. Wilding has a very good photograph of it which I should like your Lordship to have.
(The Commissioner) The watertight door of the bulkhead?
(Mr. Laing) Yes; this is the picture. (Handing photograph to the Commissioner.) The engine room floor you will notice, your Lordship, is missing there; the plating has been taken off showing the box of the float underneath the plating. I believe when my friend, the Attorney-General, visited the Olympic a compartment was flooded for demonstration purposes to see whether it worked?
A - Yes, the turbine engine room.
Q - Did it work?
A - Yes.
(The Commissioner) Were you astonished?
A - No, I expected it.


.
 

Rancor

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codad1946 said:
Main seawater overboard: This is the large volume of seawater that can still be seen today issuing from the side of steamships (and motorships for that matter), which is in the order of 5,000t/hr through a 1.2m diameter overboard discharge. That's pretty big and is quite obvious. Titanic had two of these, one each side for the tandem main seawater pumps.

Never cease to be impressed by the scale of the vessels. 1.2m diameter pipe is massive. And 5000t an hour... powerful pumps!

I agree it must have been the auxiliary condenser discharge that was flooding lifeboats during the sinking, if the main discharge was still going the lifeboat would have been swamped in seconds by the sound of it.
 

Rancor

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Still one more question about the condensing arrangements, I think this has been explained but i haven't quite understood it yet.
With the dynamos exhausting to th surface heater, and an unexpected stop of main engines and subsequent sudden cut in the feedwater flowing through the surface heater, what does this mean for the dynamo exhaust? Wouldn't it stop condending and you could have a high backpressure trip? How long did you have to switch to the auxiliary condenser before this happened?
 

Stephen Carey

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Apr 25, 2016
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Never cease to be impressed by the scale of the vessels. 1.2m diameter pipe is massive. And 5000t an hour... powerful pumps!

I agree it must have been the auxiliary condenser discharge that was flooding lifeboats during the sinking, if the main discharge was still going the lifeboat would have been swamped in seconds by the sound of it.

Hi again Rancor - yes, the main sea circ would have drowned a lifeboat, but it was much further aft (clear of the boats) and by that time was probably even out of the water, which would have incurred a change to the auxiliary system even if they had not done it earlier to save steam.
 

Stephen Carey

Member
Apr 25, 2016
171
93
93
Philippines
Still one more question about the condensing arrangements, I think this has been explained but i haven't quite understood it yet.
With the dynamos exhausting to th surface heater, and an unexpected stop of main engines and subsequent sudden cut in the feedwater flowing through the surface heater, what does this mean for the dynamo exhaust? Wouldn't it stop condending and you could have a high backpressure trip? How long did you have to switch to the auxiliary condenser before this happened?

I don't seem to get any notifications of posts on this site - what am I doing wrong? Must be a setting adrift somewhere...
Regarding the exhausts from the main generators, a crash stop of the main engines (and stopping or bypassing the main feed pumps) would probably have been handled by a dump line downstream of the surface heater, upstream of the contact heater; though I haven't seen one anywhere, it makes sense (good question, by the way!). Swinging this valve open would pass the feed from the downstream side back to the feed tanks, to be picked up again by the hotwell pumps in a circulatory fashion. This will keep lower temperature feed passing through the surface heater to condense the generator exhausts and avoid them stopping on high back pressure. The Mono air pump shown as a condensate removal pump would most probably also have a dump back to the feed tanks (possibly under gravity rather than being pumped). Opening these two circulatory systems would keep the feed passing through the heater to condense the generator exhaust. At the same time, a couple of engineers would be swiftly changing over the main generators on to the auxiliary system to keep them running without any further attention.
In addition to this, the main feed pumps, which would have been running flat out, would have responded to the feed checks being closed on the boilers by their relief valves lifting. This would either pass the feed back to the pump suction or discharge it back through a drains cooler to the feed tanks. I'd have to research whether there was one fitted, as one is supplied on Normandie for instance, even though she had self-regulating turbine feed pumps. I received some ER schematics the other day which i have yet to figure out - the answer may be there.
 
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Mark Baber

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I don't seem to get any notifications of posts on this site - what am I doing wrong? Must be a setting adrift somewhere...
Hello, codad---

If you click on your name at the top right corner of the page, you should see "Alert Preferences" in the drop-down From there you can make any desired changes to your settings.
 

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