Even if they made a new Titanic


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Anna Jean.

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I've heard so many rumors of "they're building a new one now!" to "they will in the year so-and-so."

But... even if they did make a new Titanic, Titanic II... I think that sailing on it would be an extremely depressing thing.

For one, on the maiden voyage, EVERYONE would be saying "We're going to sink!" (whether in joking manner or being serious) and that the ship would go down. Even after the maiden voyage, I think people would still feel... wary, sailing on it?

Of course, I think it would be awesome to ride on the maiden voyage... just so that, in a way, the Titanic has finally reached her destination.

I doubt they'll make a replica ship. If they do, yes, I would be shelling out all the money I had to sail on it... but I wouldn't be able to sail without (as most other people would, I'm sure) thinking about all the people that died in the original disaster.

Maybe this post had a point.

Probably not.

Any thoughts?
 

Matt Simons

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Anna,
I did not know there was a folder for Titanic II posts until I saw the arrow that pointed to your post.

I was and am somewhat still a member of www.titanic.com. All they talked about was Titanic II.

The CEO for the new White Star Line company posted that they are investing in stocks to give them enough money to rebuild the Titanic. This time each stateroom would have a bathroom. Also they want to use boilers, they are contacting a company about these. You can visit the website and check this out for yourself if you want.

You made some good points. It would be cool to see the reactions of people when divided into classes and when experiencing the Gilded Age High Society in person.

The ticket prices would start at $700 for a third class birth to $80,000 for a millonaire private promenade parlor suit. I might be off with the ticket prices, I have lost the email from the CEO so it is from my memory.
 
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I wouldn't count on a replica of the Titanic ever being built much less put to sea. Last year, lee Gilliland made the following post which does a nice job of summing up the problems:
quote:

Some of you have read Lee's speech on Titanic II and are therefor excused. Sorry, I know it sounds like a rant. Maybe it is.

I worked at a privately-owned bank in Richmond for a while, right after Ballard
had found the ship. For some reason, a lot of the ship-making loans from around
Norfolk were made there. We went through three, I said three, Titanic II
applications that year. The idea won't float - pun intended. We did a
feasibility study on the first one - then just kept it around, as the
others wouldn't believe (we did retype the first page). The ship would
need extensive alteration in order to comply with current health and
safety regulations, including radar and sonar as well as certain things
being required to be handled by computer (all the fire and safety systems,
etc.), which was after the point in time I'm discussing, but are now required.
Then there's the idea of making money off this thing - which is, after all,
what bankers do.

Who would be the passengers on such a ship? At the moment, she is too small
to be a money-making passenger ship, unless you charged exorbitant amounts of
money - and for what? The "luxurious travel" of 1912 doesn't hold up today -
at all. First of all, the quarters - most the first-class quarters shared
bathrooms. So there's a major refit right there - and forget Third Class
altogether.

OK, let's say we go ahead and make all the rooms the equivalent of First
Class, with bathrooms. Now what are you going to have the passengers do?
Please don't forget that the main pleasures were walking the decks, talking
(excuse me, "social intercourse" ) and eating - they spent the entire evening,
every day, eating! And changing clothes. Boy, did they change clothes.

Which means, as public spaces, we have a place to read books, a place to write
letters, a place to walk around the ship or sit and have a bit of broth and
biscuit, and two places to eat. Period. No cinema, no real bar, no golf,
no shuffleboard, one - repeat one - swimming pool, inside, 1/4 Olympic length,
and one squash court. That's it folks, them's the amenities!

So now you are going to ask people to spend thousands on one-way trips in this?
Or cruises? And who, pray tell, will be the clients? Yes, the first year
(if you're lucky) all the Titanic enthusiasts in the world will sign on -
for a once-in-a-lifetime experience. This doesn't give much for the return-trip
crowd a lot of modern cruises plan for. So who next? Who would want to sail
on this thing?

At a dead minimum, at this point you need to spend at least half-to
three-quarters what you needed originally to re-outfit her as a normal
cruise ship. What's the point? Build a modern one immediately and be done
with it - who needs to waste what little profit you would make - and in
the cruise-ship business, trust me we are talking peanuts - to build
this thing? There are not enough Titanic enthusiasts in the world to make
this critter profitable.

It's dead in the water. Trust me.
I've seen nothing which renders any of the points she made null and void, but if somebody makes it happen, I'll wish them fair winds and following seas.​
 

Matt Simons

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Wow, I never thought of that amenities thing. Still they could build a museam with accurate public rooms to walk-through in it to give people a taste of society and amenities back then. Espeacilly high society.
 
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A landed museum with recreations of certain spaces, public rooms and some of the working spaces may be a practical idea. Unfortunately, building an identical replica is a non starter for the reasons already pointed out. The woodwork alone would give any modern day inspector a screaming fit followed by "You've gotta be kidding me if you think I'm going to sign off on that!"

And a perfect replica of the boiler rooms? Forget about it! Stoking coal was a miserable and back breaking job that took an especially tough and even ruthless breed of person to do. Think you're going to find anyone willing to work in the hellish conditions of the old stokeholds today?

Not happening!

Then there's the matter of training. Not just in operating obsolete technologies but in building them. Not too many rivited hulls in service today, few shipyards capable of maintaining them, and none that can build them. Recreating the tooling needed would be prohibetively expensive and training people to use them all the more so.
 

Matt Simons

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Yes,
But I have seen replicas of the first class public rooms. Such as an inaccurate model of the Grand Staricase and a Stateroom. And Cameron duplicated these rooms for his set. Even though the Lounge was only three feet high. It wood be expensive, and it would take alot of research, but if they pulled it off, it could be extremely sucessful. Just say it is a replica of Cameron's sets only better.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Matt, I think we're now at the point where we're comparing apples with filet mignon. A static non-functioning replica of a few ship's spaces is one thing and that's entirely feasible. An accurate and fully functional replica of any edwardian liner, Titanic or otherwise, is not. Unfortunately, that's the proposal a lot of people seem stuck on even though they have no idea what they're really asking for.
 

Matt Simons

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Micheal,
Yes, a museam would be cool. And I studied about building a new Titanic, and have come across many problems with a replica. But I think we should let the people of today get a taste of the Gilded Age, just to help it not fall into the background.

I thought of a museam they could build for Titanic. It would be the Stern section straight up and down as when the ship was nearing the end of the sinking. The ground would be from the 4th funnel upward to the stern. The funnel would be gone, and I haven't yet figured out what to do with a large hole. The floors would all go horizontal not vertical like they really were in a tipped ship. And as a result the windows would go all over the place with some going between floors etc. And a photo balcony at the tip of the stern to take pictures looking down at the ship. And a mote around the ship.
Sound Cool
Probably Doesn't make sense.
What are others insights on my design. Probably very challenging to build.
 

Adam Eickholt

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Michael H. Standart wrote:

A landed museum with recreations of certain spaces, public rooms and some of the working spaces may be a practical idea.

Of all the ideas floated, that does seem to be the most feasible solution for satisfying the demand of those who want to experience what it would be like to step onboard the Titanic. Perhaps an arrangement could even be worked out to include some of the salvaged artifacts in such a museum so that they could be viewed in their proper context.

I know a German museum has recreated a section of the Hindenburg’s hull containing the passenger compartment for visitors to experience. Some photos can be seen here:

http://www.schreiber-bogen.de/cat.php?ac=5&t=200

In comparison, any mockup of representative spaces on the Titanic would undoubtedly be a much more expensive undertaking. One also wonders what location would be the ideal site for such a museum in order to improve the chances the museum would be a success.

Stoking coal was a miserable and back breaking job that took an especially tough and even ruthless breed of person to do. Think you're going to find anyone willing to work in the hellish conditions of the old stokeholds today?

That reminds me of a passage in Humfrey Jordan’s Mauretania :

“Her black squad was not what it had been; men simply could not be found to do the work as it had been done before the War… Most of the engineers who knew exactly the size of those demands seem astonished not at the post-war attitude, of doing the job and no more, but that the other attitude, of giving the ship what she demanded, should ever have existed.”

Adam
 
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I have a friend who is in his late-80s, who was imprisoned by the Japanese in Singapore during WW2. He arrived at this dismal situation by being on a ship called the Empress of Asia, which was attacked and, I think, sunk in Singapore Harbour. It was still a coal-burner in 1942, and he recalls how the Captain detested it, and how the troops on board were needed to help with the stoking etc. because the sailors on board were near to mutiny under the conditions they worked in. I don't vouch for his memories - I merely record what he told me. But he was there.
 

Matt Simons

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<<One also wonders what location would be the ideal site for such a museum in order to improve the chances the museum would be a success.>>



My guess is London. America doesn't seem to be a Titanic country besides the movie Titanic. Britain seems to be more of a country that would respect a museam like this. Liverpool would probably also work. And I'm sure Belfast would work too.
 

Inger Sheil

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From a museum perspective, a few static displays of particular sections of the ships is most viable. Cobh's Heritage Centre, for example, has recreated part of a public room from the Celtic's (the smoking room, was it? One of the saloon areas?). The National Maritime Museum in Greenwich also has some areas that seek to evoke ship interiors.

It is important to differentiate between 'replica' and 'reproduction' - the former is an exact copy, the latter is not. There are few true 'replicas' of large historic vessels today, as in order to meet modern safety standards they must necessarily compromise complete historic veracity.

It is extremely difficult for reproduction vessels - even very popular ones - to pay their own way. Same with preserved historic vessels. The ongoing cost of maintaining a vessel (let alone maintaining it in deep-sea survey) is tremendous. Maritime museums and heritage trusts all over the world constantly have to fight to maintain the necessary level of funds. The Cutty Sark - a tremendously popular and famous attraction - was only recently able to get a desperately needed sum of money from the Heritage Lottery Fund to enable much needed maintenance work...and she's in dry-dock!

Few would pay to sail on any replica of the Titanic that was remotely accurate. Modern cruise ship passengers expect more than a small inside pool, a turkish bath, squash courts and a bit of shuttleboard. Picking up the odd souvenier from the barber shop isn't going to suit them, either - they want contemporary shopping and entertainment.

The most you could hope for would be a modern vessel with a few reproduction public areas, and perhaps a gesture towards period ambience in the cabins.
 

Noel F. Jones

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"....Think you're going to find anyone willing to work in the hellish conditions of the old stokeholds today?"

Given the brief I'm confident I could sell this in the yuppy market as 'an experience'.

However, I couldn't guarantee that in the fullness of time I wouldn't run out of bloody fools.

Noel
 

Matt Simons

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<<The most you could hope for would be a modern vessel with a few reproduction public areas, and perhaps a gesture towards period ambience in the cabins.>>

It's weird you mention this Inger, because I once thought of a vessel they could make like this. It was an idea that was inspired by Titanic II. The name for this ship would be
The Blue-Crown. And a later ship would be called
The Blue-Con.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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And the Titanic didn't even have shuffleboard. I'm not quite sure what it's origins are, but if memory serves, it didn't start appearing on liners until the 1920's. As much as we might sneer at casinos, live theatre productions, multiple swimming pools, shops, spas, and internet cafes, it's what the public demands, what the shipping companies provide if they wish to survive and which no Edwardian liner had.

The funding problems Inger mentioned aren't just confined to the U.K. either. The sloop of war USS Constellation was in such bad shape when she was taken over by a new foundation that she was literally being held together with wire cable, and the battleship Texas, the last of the early dreadnaughts had to have extensive hull work down to prevent her sinking where she was moored.

Keeping a ship, even as a museum, ain't as easy as some might wish it was.
 

Bob Godfrey

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I am currently looking for investors for the building of an authentic replica of a late 18th century 24-gun frigate. This will be used as the basis of a planned profitable venture providing authentic holidays to be marketed as 'the Press Ganged experience'. Customers will pay in advance but will be unable to specify a date for their cruise. Instead, at a random time weeks, months, perhaps even years later, as they emerge from their local pubs at closing time they will be waylaid by our bosun and his press gang. They will then be beaten about the head with belaying pins, placed in a sack and carried away unconscious. Next morning they will be woken by a bucketload of water thrown into the face and will find themselves, after presentation of a commemorative 'Queen's shilling', to be newly-pressed members of the crew of our frigate Nasty Surprise. Any pleas that the timing is inconvenient, that this day had been set aside for an important job interview, a wedding, etc will of course be ignored and persistent pleaders will be flogged into submission.

The cruise activities programme will begin immediately, with healthy recreations such as deck scrubbing, rope climbing, anchor hauling, and the boarding and pillaging of French cruise ships. Accommodation will be on a single-class basis, consisting of shared cabins (43 slung berths per room), all finished in 18th Century plain oak decor. Three meals will be supplied daily, sample menu as follows. Breakfast: hard tack; lunch: hard tack; dinner: hard tack with weevils (on Sundays only: hard tack with salt pork and roundworms). Apples and lime juice served with all meals except for those who opt for the enhanced experience (which includes scurvy).

Cruises will last from 6 months to 3 years (at no extra cost), depending on wind and currents. Some passengers may never return, in which case an efficient burial at sea will be arranged by the company. In any event all will be guaranteed the authentic press ganged experience of a lifetime. Should this venture prove to be a success, I have plans for future expansion to include Mediterranean cruises ('the Galley Slave experience') cruises to Australia ('the Transportation experience') and, for those who don't like to travel, the 'Prison Hulk' experience, using vessels moored in the Thames estuary. Money back if not delighted.
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Paul Rogers

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Bob: Count me in, as long as you're not planning to charge a single supplement. Six months to three years away from the British weather, Tony & Gordon and chavs sounds like a dream come true.

Will there be a vegetarian option to replace the salt pork, weevils and roundworms?

PS: I assume internet access will be provided on board?
 

Bob Godfrey

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No internet access, I'm afraid, Paul, but for those who wish to send messages home a suitable bottle will be provided. Vegetarians should simply strike their hard tack sharply on the deck to dislodge any livestock. If you don't like hard tack, opt for the optional extra 'QM2 experience', which includes a shortage of hard tack.

It is envisaged, incidentally, that most 'passengers' will be enjoying the cruise as a surprise holiday paid for by subscription from well-meaning friends or family who feel that such a cruise would do the prospective 'passenger' (and/or themselves) 'a world of good'.
.
 

Paul Rogers

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There's no (safe) answer to that!

Mind you, with clever marketing, and based on your latter point, I believe you may find 'the Press Ganged experience' becomes considerably over-subscribed. I can think of a few prospective passengers already...
 

Bob Godfrey

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And that marketing strategy will of course guarantee the presence on board of many famous (albeit unpopular) faces. Imagine listening to tall stories from famous politicians and tuneless shanties from ex-Spice Girls, spending hours with your spyglass looking for signs of charisma in Big Brother contestants, and finishing the day with 40 lashes of the tongue administered by Anne Robinson.
 
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