Famous yet Mysterious Photos of 2C


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Jun 12, 2004
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I have (but cannot seem to find) two adjacent photos of the aft boat deck looking forward--one of the port side, the other starboard. The former features a teenage girl with her mother striding along with a man in an overcoat. The latter shows a another man curiously gazing upon the lifeboats while a little girl (presumably his daughter) skips along beside him. These photos were dated three days prior to the tragedy (11 April, 1912).

I presume that everyone here has seen the photos of which I speak!

Here are my questions:

(1) Have the people in these photos been identified or are they identifiable?
(2) If so, who are they?
(3) Did they survive or did they perish?*

I thought I read that those on the port side were lost, but it has been so long that I don't remember for sure. I am curious to know.


Questions not related to content:

(4) Who took the pictures?
(5) Where can I find large versions on the Web? (I searched on ET, but couldn't find them because I wasn't sure where to look)


Thanks, all!

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* The child on the starboard side obviously survived, since no 2C children were lost.
 
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Holly Peterson

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The teenage girl is Elsie Doling, 18, the woman beside her is her sister-in-law Ada Doling, and the man is Frederick Wheeler. Both Dolings survived though I'm not sure about Mr. Wheeler. The man and his daughter are widely presumed to be Rev. John Harper and his girl Nina; father died while daughter survived.

Glad to have been of assistance!
 
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Holly Peterson

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Oops, sorry; I overlooked your second questions. To find the first picture, go to www.southampton.gov.uk/.../gallery/image3.asp or just type in Elsie Doling in google images. To find the second picture, go to http://pagesperso-orange.fr/titanic/images1/harper_promenade.jpg or just type in Nina Harper in google images.

Hope this helps
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Jun 12, 2004
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The first brought up a security error, but the second one came through fine.

Where did you find this information? Nothing is mentioned in any of the books in my library.

Thank you, Holly.
 

Bob Godfrey

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The Harpers were photographed by Frank Browne. The other pic was taken I think by a local press photographer who had come (briefly) aboard while the ship was transferring passengers and mail at Queenstown.
 
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Holly Peterson

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It is rather widely known that the photo of man and child strolling down the boat deck is supposed to show Nina Harper and her father. I found the information about the first picture on the website I gave to you. If you want to find it just type in Elsie Doling on Google and click on the first photo that turns up. I, like you, had been wondering who the young lady in the photo was before I randomly came across this info. I had always thought it was Edith Brown. It is also mentioned on Fred Wheeler's biography here at ET that he had been photographed strolling with Elsie and Ada Doling on the boat deck. Oh and by the way, Mr. Wheeler perished
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Bob Godfrey

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Both pics appear in many of the standard reference works - Illustrated History and Triumph & Tragedy, for instance - but often (as in both of those) the captions don't identify the people. Possibly because, high though the probabilities might be, we can't be absolutely certain who they are, especially in the case of the Harpers.
 
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Yes, I have the pictures, Bob, including the two references you mentioned. As you say, though, no one is identified. That's why I thought I'd bring attention to them for myself and others who would likely be curious to know.

Whether or not the two on the starboard side are 'absolutely' the Harpers, they are included here due to their identities being of "high probability."

Thanks, Bob.
 
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Just in case the links that Holly provided above aren't accessible to others, here are the two photos in question:

[photo deleted]

Moderator's Note: Edited to remove photo, due to copyright issues. JDT]
 

Bob Godfrey

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Mark, the copyright to Father Browne's photo is now owned by the Jesuits. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, so best keep your eyes peeled.
 
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Ooops! Sorry. Perhaps Phil or one of the mods can extract it from the thread.

To the copyright holder: My apologies. I wasn't aware that it would make a big deal. If the webmaster or mods wish to remove it, they will do it asap. Again, my apologies.

Thanks for the heads-up, Bob.
 

Paul Rogers

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I expect Reverend John would be fed up hearing all about harpers harping with their harps...

Bob: I hear that, amongst a copyright owner's weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms.

Oh damn.
 

Bob Godfrey

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You heard right, Paul, but don't leave out the comfy chair. I know it doesn't sound too threatening, but you have no idea how creative those boys in red can be.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Much like King Edward II of England, who had hot, boiling oil poured up his hind end back in 1327. OUCH! And it's still up-in-the-air as to whether or not that particular act was conducted by the boys in red or some other perturbed party.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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The Inquisiiiiiiition,
What a show!
The Inquisiiiiiiition,
Here we go,
We know you're wishin' that we'ed go awaaaaayyyyy,
But the Inquistion's here and it's here to staaaaaaaayyyyyyyy!!!!

(Only Mel Brookes could turn the Inquistion into a Vaudeville act!)
 

Paul Rogers

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"Much like King Edward II of England, who had hot, boiling oil poured up his hind end back in 1327."

Sir Thomas More - IIRC - actually opined that a red hot poker was used to see off the ex-King (he had already abdicated) as opposed to boiling oil (which would have been a bit messy). In truth, the "poker up the jacksie" story is an uncorroborated rumour; it is even suggested that Edward may have lived, to die eventually in Italy eleven years' later.

"And it's still up-in-the-air as to whether or not that particular act was conducted by the boys in red or some other perturbed party."

Not much doubt about who did him in: it was his wife, Isabella and Roger Mortimer, the 1st Earl of March. And not a comfy chair in sight!
 
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