Favorite Moment


Inger Sheil

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Lots of sense
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I love that line in the Gracie/Lightoller dialogue towards the end: 'You're not God, Mr Lightoller.' While SuperLights responds with a snort and replies that no seaman ever thinks he is, I've sat there with mates and laughed immoderately at it, given that SuperLights has been the hero throughout. Ah, if only he'd been on watch! It is one of the human reaction moments, though - another was witnessing a father saying farewell to his son (given that Lightoller had a couple of his own). One scene I've always wanted to see on film was Moody's exchange with Lowe at the aft port boats ('you go...'). Sometimes a very poignant dimension is added with the back story - I've always been curiously moved by the Cameron movie scene when Cal says to Wilde 'Please...I'm all she has in the world' and Wilde lets Cal and the child board Collapsible A. When you bear in mind that Wilde's children were about to become orphans, it's a terribly moving moment (whether Cameron was aware of the Wilde back story or not). And then there's Lowe's history of family tragedy, with the loss of a brother in a boating accident in his teens. But then, I'd just be a nuisance and change the whole empahsis of the movie - it wouldn't be ship-centric if I had my mitts on it!

I had problems with some of the emphasis in ANTR - we see a rather lackadasical Murdoch waving men into Boat 1, whilst SuperLights fights to hold back the hordes - almost single handed! In terms of dramatic necessity I understand why this was done, but from an historic perspective I rather regret the decision. Poor Murdoch might have overseen Boat 1, but he also oversaw some of the most filled boats that night (and more of them). And then, towards the end, Murdoch just...disappears. I can't grumble too much, though, because we do get to see Moody helping at the collapsibles. I'm also amused every time I see it by the rather more decorous 'ticking off' Lightoller gives 'The Chairman' - Lowe was not so polite as to ask him to 'kindly stop' interfering.

You're one up on me if you're familiar with basic HTML! I know a skerrick of coding, and that's it - just enough to get by.
 
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Mar 28, 2002
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John Cairney, born in Glasgow in 1930, is alive and well and living in New Zealand. I have seen correspondance from him where he talks about the making of ANTR.

Cheers,

Boz
 

Bob Godfrey

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Another bit of trivia about the Irish in ANTR. Mary Monahan appears in the cast list as 'Kate' (who was wooed by 'Martin Gallagher') but one of the costume design sketches is labelled 'Kate Farrell', so presumably she was intended to be the daughter of the older couple. The real James Farrell was a young man, travelling alone. So, in addition to featuring real characters with fictional names, ANTR includes fictional characters with real names! Martin Gallagher is a borderline case, as the incident in which he threatens the steward for not letting 'the girls' through to the boat deck was based on a real incident.
 
Mar 28, 2002
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Sing-a-long-a-John-Cairney:

OFF TO PHILADELPHIA

Oh, me name is Paddy Leary from a spot in Tipperary
The hearts of all the girls I'm a thorn in
But come the break of mornin it is they who'll be forlorn
For I'm off to Philadelphia in the morning

Chorus:

With me bundle on me shoulder, faith, there's no man can be bolder
I'm leaving dare old Ireland without warning
For I lately took the notion for to cross the briny ocean
And I'm off to Philadelphia in the morning

There's a girl named Kate Malone sure I'd hope to call me own
To see my little cabin floor adornin
But my heart is sad and weary, how can she be Mrs. Leary
When I'm off to Philadelphia in the morning

When they told me I must leave the place I tried to wear a cheerful face
To show me hearts deep sorrow I was scornin
But the tears will surely blind me for the friends I leave behind me
When I'm off to Philadelphia in the morning

Chorus:

With me bundle on me shoulder sure there's no man can be bolder
I'm leaving just the spot that I was born in
But some day I'll take the notion to come back across that ocean
To me home in dear old Ireland in the morning


Quite a poignant song, I'm thinking. Most of the 113 third-class who boarded at Queenstown must have been feeling these sentiments.

Cheers,

Boz
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Another jig, there, Yardley-uicius! lol

Sorry, I'm a bit silly today. Bob picked it up and carried it, and I took off with it. It was an opportunity I couldn't pass up.

I have wondered while listening to John sing that song if the immigrants actually knew such a song. It talks about leaving Ireland, for the new country, but would Irish immigrants have known about any American city other than New York or a city in which, say, friends or relatives lived? Was the song written by an American in America or by an Irishman in Ireland? Just curious.

Also, I wonder if John Cairney had been known for his singing in order to get a singing gig aboard the Titanic. Did he have any music credits prior to ANTR?
I would be very interested in hearing his thoughts on the making of ANTR, too. Do you have anything on that, Lain?
 
Jun 12, 2004
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INGER--The interesting thing that I noticed about the Cal-Wilde interaction is that since Cal was a millionaire onboard, one would think that Chief Officer Wilde would have known him, or known of him, and therefore had known that Cal did not have a little girl. Further, despite how busy it was on deck, it's reasonable to presume that Wilde would have seen Cal around without the little girl with him. It seems kind of unbelievable that he would buy Cal's little story about being "all she has in the world." I can see Wilde letting the child go, but not the millionaire, especially in front a host of raving steerage. No doubt the third-class would be up-in-arms over that, and I would suspect that Wilde would have been privy to this perception beforehand and had expected such an outrage. After all, Cal was right there without a child, then, in front of several witness, including Wilde and third-class alike, he shifts ten feet away, picks up a third-class girl, and moves forward again and claimed that it was his. I'm sure no one except for, strange enough, Wilde was convinced by this. What are your thoughts on this?
 
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Very interesting. The man has a very impressive stock. Very versatile! The one thing I noticed was that there was no mention of ANTR.

Thanks for sharing, Bob.
 

Inger Sheil

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Curse you, Boz! I'm going to be trotting around singing that song all day now!

Mark, I'm not entirely sure that Wilde would have known every millionaire aboard, not by sight on a dark, confused boat deck, with crowds milling around. If he'd travelled with Cal before he might have known him, or if he'd had a reason to speak with him or happened to have him pointed out, but it's well within the realms of likelihood that he didn't recognise him, let alone know what his family circumstances were. The other passengers gathered around seem so focused on their own survival that I don't think they'd track the progress of an individual - we do so because we have a camera on him, but it's very easy to loose sight of someone in the crowd. Cal's line, asking for admission, was very short, and Wilde only acknowledges with a nod - he would have been through the line before anyone noticed, and even if they did protest, they were already straining at the crewmen as it was. The scene is of course flawed - it has been questioned before whether Wilde would really have thought that a child dressed in steerage clothes was the child of a man in evening dress. A strategy like nabbing a child and using it to gain entry into a boat would also have probably occured to the officers as a possibility and they'd be on the look out for it. My focus has never been on Cal and the child in that scene, however - it's on Wilde's reaction. One wonders what was going through the mind of the historical figure at that point.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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>>it has been questioned before whether Wilde would really have thought that a child dressed in steerage clothes was the child of a man in evening dress. A strategy like nabbing a child and using it to gain entry into a boat would also have probably occured to the officers as a possibility and they'd be on the look out for it.<<

Well, that was my point regarding believability. One would figure that Wilde, whether he had known Cal or not, would question the difference in clothing. As we know clothes were an important consideration at that time.

By the way, Wilde did have a line. He said,"all right, go ahead." It was soft, but it was there.

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting scene, nonetheless. I guess it's because of its flaws that it's interesting. It makes me curious as to what was going not only through Wilde's mind, but Cameron's as well.
 

Inger Sheil

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I'll have to rewatch that scene, Mark! I remember the nod but not the line - been a while since I've seen the movie (I think I'd be howled down if I tried to watch it while any other member of the household was around).
 
Jun 12, 2004
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I take it that your entire family hates Titanic? Well, having a mother/wife who is a Titanic expert, they undoubtedly know everything about it. ;) hehe
 

Inger Sheil

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Not exactly hate - they will listen patiently from time to time, ask questions, and one visiting sibling even took my MS to read without letting me know about it! First I was aware it had gone walkabout was when she started asking about specific points in the text. They've even been known to turn on the VCR to tape something where the 'T' word comes up. Cameron and ANTR viewings are pushing it a bit, though.

I'm have no kiddies, but am eagerly looking forward to my nephew and niece being old enough to learn about ships - they're already entranced with my display aquarium...surely it can't be too big a step for them to start wondering about the sea...
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But some day I'll take the notion to come back across that ocean
To me home in dear old Ireland in the morning


(Ack! It's still there!)
 
Mar 28, 2002
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Just went to the Cairney website - God, he hasn't changed a bit, apart from the white hair. There is a mention of ANTR in the "Selected Credits", Mark, but blink and you'd miss it.

I'll probably get another opportunity to see the Cariney / ANTR letter this weekend and if I find anything interesting I'll post it.

Inger, next time I see you I want to hear you sing it word-perfect, complete with manic jig of course.

Cheers,

Boz
 

Inger Sheil

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Oh, I'm a master of the manic jig, Boz...and can out-caterwaul anyone. Spent much of the weekend honing my skills in these two areas. I'll do a demo of it for you next time
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- and will even chuck in a free version of 'Wearing of the Green' and 'Skibereen'!

Oddly enough, I swiched on the TV early on Sat morning as I blearily tried to wake up for Pilates, and ANTR was showing. I'd missed the whole 'bundle on my shoulder' bit and the ship was well on the way to the bottom, but I watched anyway - it must have been too long since I've seen it, as I was choking up rather more than I thought I would be. Had a lot of the background stories, both to the film and the event in my mind.
 
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Well, I saw the John Cairney letters, from 1992 and 1993, written from New Zealand. They talk about where various scenes from ANTR were filmed mainly, as well as anecdotes about filminmg the lifeboat scenes on Ruislip Lido, repeatedly being dunked in freezing water, dried out, dunked again.

I also saw an original brochure from the film studios to UK cinemas with instructions on how to market the film, brilliant stills from the movie, along with actor/actress biographies, full cast and credit list (for instance David McCallum is listed as living with his wife Jill Ireland in Maida Vale, London), copies of movie posters, suggested premiere guest lists and who to include to promote the film.

I also saw a similar brochure for SOS Titanic, including a short interview with Eva Hart. It may have been mentioned somewhere before but it was the first time I had read that Eva met Lawrence Beesley at some point and he said that he remembered her as a little girl dragging her dolly around with her on deck. She had to correct him - apparently it was her teddy bear. She also recalled how Guggenheim's chaffeur Rene Pernot used to walk with her on deck.

Cheers,

Boz
 

Inger Sheil

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Having said above that - in light of some of the remarks he made privately about the book - I didn't think Pitman would have co-operated in the filming of ANTR, I feel I should note that he was at the Premiere in Leicester Square. He was photographed with Boxhall - oh, to be the proverbial fly on the wall for that conversation!
 

Adam Went

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I love ANTR. I think it's quite possibly the best Titanic movie that has ever been made. It sticks to the facts, while weaving an interesting storyline around it, it has a good cast, and has that sense of a classical film, which it is.

My favourite moment is when there is a scene of the Third Class passengers dancing and singing around long, crowded seats with quite plain surroundings, and then cuts to a scene of the rich First Class passengers walking down the Grand Staircase and into the lavish dining room. The comparison is quite a good one. I can rarely bring myself to watch the sinking part of any movie, I prefer to watch the parts where she is still afloat, sailing, and everyone is happy.

For best Titanic movie, ANTR gets my #1 vote. It's a pity that so many people involved in the film have died in recent times though, including William MacQuitty, who died less than a year ago, and Walter Lord, only in recent times as well.

A much belated congratulations to all involved with the film, it is just excellent.

Regards,
Adam.
 
A

Allison Lane

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>> Having said above that - in light of some of the remarks he made privately about the book - I didn't think Pitman would have co-operated in the filming of ANTR, I feel I should note that he was at the Premiere in Leicester Square. He was photographed with Boxhall - oh, to be the proverbial fly on the wall for that conversation! <<

Erm, you wouldn't happen to know how I could go about viewing said photograph, would you? Me being the photograph whore I am. :D


-Allison L.
 

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