Tieler Niedzwiecki
Guest
Does anyone know out there which US States currently have the most Titanic victims buried within their boundaries? I know it's a morbid question however it has been on my mind for a while. Thank you very much. Tieler.
Final Resting Places
- Thread starter Tieler Niedzwiecki
- Start date
Phillip Gowan
RIP
Without actually tallying I'd venture:
1. New York
2. New Jersey
3. Pennsylvania
4. California
5. Florida
Quite a few in other states like Michigan, Ohio, Connecticut, and Massachusetts as well. But they're scattered in some odd places too--Philipp Mock in Alabama, Laura Cribb in New Mexico--Edward Dorkings' ashes were deposited in a common grave in a US prison facility. Lucy Ridsdale is in a group lot for people who died in a "poor house" and Lutie Parrish is in a solitary grave in Honolulu, Hawaii. Survivor/gambler Harry Haven Homer's wife died and he had her cremated--sent the remains to his brother and sister-in-law in Ohio not telling them what was in the package--just asked them to hold it for him. They did--but when he didn't show up for two years afterwards they went ahead and opened the box--then buried the ashes on their property. When Haven finally showed up he didn't even ask what had become of the package he sent years earlier. Nice guy.
Phillip Gowan
1. New York
2. New Jersey
3. Pennsylvania
4. California
5. Florida
Quite a few in other states like Michigan, Ohio, Connecticut, and Massachusetts as well. But they're scattered in some odd places too--Philipp Mock in Alabama, Laura Cribb in New Mexico--Edward Dorkings' ashes were deposited in a common grave in a US prison facility. Lucy Ridsdale is in a group lot for people who died in a "poor house" and Lutie Parrish is in a solitary grave in Honolulu, Hawaii. Survivor/gambler Harry Haven Homer's wife died and he had her cremated--sent the remains to his brother and sister-in-law in Ohio not telling them what was in the package--just asked them to hold it for him. They did--but when he didn't show up for two years afterwards they went ahead and opened the box--then buried the ashes on their property. When Haven finally showed up he didn't even ask what had become of the package he sent years earlier. Nice guy.
Phillip Gowan
Michael Findlay
Member
Hi Tieler,
I believe you wanted the number of Titanic victims, not survivors, as Phil G. figured above. Actually, the state of Florida should be deleted since almost all of the survivors who died in that state were buried elsewhere - they were transient winter residents of the Sunshine State. Massachusetts should be substituted since a large number of Titanic passengers are buried in that state, particularly near the Boston area.
59 victims of the Titanic were buried outside of the Halifax area, and the breakdown is as follows (in order of number):
U.S.
New York (15)
Massachusetts (8)
Pennsylvania (5)
Wisconsin (3)
Iowa (2)
Florida (1)
Nebraska (1)
New Jersey (1)
Ohio (1)
Rhode Island (1)
Vermont (1)
Canada (7) - 4 Quebec, 3 Ontario, 1 Manitoba)
United Kingdom (8)
Denmark (1)
Holland (1)
Italy (1)
Norway (1)
South America (1)
The only Titanic victim who has not been located is second class passenger Harry Faunthorpe. His body was forwaded to Pennsylvania, and it is alleged that he was buried in Philadelphia. All efforts to trace his burial have failed. His body may have been returned to England which would then change the figures a bit. Perhaps someone here on the message board may have tracked Faunthorpe so perhaps this mystery is solved after all.
I have visited almost all of the graves, and a few do not even have grave markers. Daher Shedid is buried in an unmarked grave near Mount Carmel, Pennsylvania, as is Rev. Bateman in Jacksonville, Florida, Katherine Buckley near Boston, Massachusetts, and Leopold Weisz in Montreal, Quebec. Second class passenger Nicholas Nasrallah is buried in a family plot in New York but his name does not appear on an individual marker. Up until recently, the graves of Albert Wirz and Edward Crosby, both from Wisconsin, were unmarked. Thanks to the efforts to Titanic researchers, a permanent memorial was erected.
Back in the 1980s, the mausoleum containing the remains of Dr. William Minahan (in Green Bay, Wisconsin) was vandalized, and his skull stolen by local youths. A short time later, the boys were arrested and Dr. Minahan's skull was returned. At first, new reports thought the vandalism was committed by "Titanic researchers" hoping to steal the remains of one of the victims to add to their collection. The youths who committed the crime had no idea of the identity of the crypt they severly damaged. The mausoleum has since been restored, and the remains of Dr. Minahan are permanently sealed in the vault.
I hope this info will help...
Mike Findlay
I believe you wanted the number of Titanic victims, not survivors, as Phil G. figured above. Actually, the state of Florida should be deleted since almost all of the survivors who died in that state were buried elsewhere - they were transient winter residents of the Sunshine State. Massachusetts should be substituted since a large number of Titanic passengers are buried in that state, particularly near the Boston area.
59 victims of the Titanic were buried outside of the Halifax area, and the breakdown is as follows (in order of number):
U.S.
New York (15)
Massachusetts (8)
Pennsylvania (5)
Wisconsin (3)
Iowa (2)
Florida (1)
Nebraska (1)
New Jersey (1)
Ohio (1)
Rhode Island (1)
Vermont (1)
Canada (7) - 4 Quebec, 3 Ontario, 1 Manitoba)
United Kingdom (8)
Denmark (1)
Holland (1)
Italy (1)
Norway (1)
South America (1)
The only Titanic victim who has not been located is second class passenger Harry Faunthorpe. His body was forwaded to Pennsylvania, and it is alleged that he was buried in Philadelphia. All efforts to trace his burial have failed. His body may have been returned to England which would then change the figures a bit. Perhaps someone here on the message board may have tracked Faunthorpe so perhaps this mystery is solved after all.
I have visited almost all of the graves, and a few do not even have grave markers. Daher Shedid is buried in an unmarked grave near Mount Carmel, Pennsylvania, as is Rev. Bateman in Jacksonville, Florida, Katherine Buckley near Boston, Massachusetts, and Leopold Weisz in Montreal, Quebec. Second class passenger Nicholas Nasrallah is buried in a family plot in New York but his name does not appear on an individual marker. Up until recently, the graves of Albert Wirz and Edward Crosby, both from Wisconsin, were unmarked. Thanks to the efforts to Titanic researchers, a permanent memorial was erected.
Back in the 1980s, the mausoleum containing the remains of Dr. William Minahan (in Green Bay, Wisconsin) was vandalized, and his skull stolen by local youths. A short time later, the boys were arrested and Dr. Minahan's skull was returned. At first, new reports thought the vandalism was committed by "Titanic researchers" hoping to steal the remains of one of the victims to add to their collection. The youths who committed the crime had no idea of the identity of the crypt they severly damaged. The mausoleum has since been restored, and the remains of Dr. Minahan are permanently sealed in the vault.
I hope this info will help...
Mike Findlay
Hi Mike,
Very interesting information! In regards to the United Kingdom passengers I have visited two victims and one survivor (who was the husband of one of the victims). I think I've read the Minahan story in the Milwaukee Sentinel - very macarbre! Apparently, the resting place of Arthur Gee is also unmarked, is this true?
Warm Regards
Ben
Very interesting information! In regards to the United Kingdom passengers I have visited two victims and one survivor (who was the husband of one of the victims). I think I've read the Minahan story in the Milwaukee Sentinel - very macarbre! Apparently, the resting place of Arthur Gee is also unmarked, is this true?
Warm Regards
Ben
Geoff Whitfield
Member
Hello Ben & Mike,
Arthur Gee is buried at St John's Church, Irlam O' The Height, just outside Manchester. There originally was a headstone but it was taken away and broken up when a Garden of Remembrance was put on the site.
Alfred Rowe is buried in Toxteth Park Cemetery, Liverpool, in a most elaborate family grave.
Wallace Hartley, of course, is buried in Colne, Lancashire.
Third class passenger Owen George Allum is buried in the family plot at Clewer, Windsor. William Carbines is in Longstone Cemetery, Carbis Bay, Cornwall.
Saloon steward Arthur Lawrence is buried in Liverpool's West Derby Cemetery.
As far as I can recall, Austin Partner is buried in Long Ditton, Surrey, churchyard.
The cremated remains of Tyrell William Cavendish are behind memorial gates at Golders Green Crematorium, Hoop Lane, London.
Geoff
Arthur Gee is buried at St John's Church, Irlam O' The Height, just outside Manchester. There originally was a headstone but it was taken away and broken up when a Garden of Remembrance was put on the site.
Alfred Rowe is buried in Toxteth Park Cemetery, Liverpool, in a most elaborate family grave.
Wallace Hartley, of course, is buried in Colne, Lancashire.
Third class passenger Owen George Allum is buried in the family plot at Clewer, Windsor. William Carbines is in Longstone Cemetery, Carbis Bay, Cornwall.
Saloon steward Arthur Lawrence is buried in Liverpool's West Derby Cemetery.
As far as I can recall, Austin Partner is buried in Long Ditton, Surrey, churchyard.
The cremated remains of Tyrell William Cavendish are behind memorial gates at Golders Green Crematorium, Hoop Lane, London.
Geoff
Brian Meister
Member
Mike F and List,
I solved the Faunthorpe mystery many
years ago.(1994) So if you have truly found
the correct Samuel Greenberg and Nicholas
Nasrallah, then all are accounted for.
Brian Meister
I solved the Faunthorpe mystery many
years ago.(1994) So if you have truly found
the correct Samuel Greenberg and Nicholas
Nasrallah, then all are accounted for.
Brian Meister
Hi Geoff,
Many thanks for the information. That's correct, Austin Partner is buried in the churchyard, Long Ditton, Surrey. I made my visit a few days before discovering the message board in November last year. It is by far the most elaborate in the cemetary. An enormous white, pre-Raphaelite-esque statue stands above the headstone which reads:
"Sacred to the memory of Austin Partner of Tolworth Surbiton who lost his life in the foundering of the Steamship Titanic in mid-atlantic on the 15th day of April 1912 whose body was recovered and interred here May 23rd, Aged 40 years"
The remains of his wife, Nellie, and his youngest son, Colin Austin Partner are buried with him.
As Geoff said, Tyrell and Julia Cavendish are buried at Golders Green crematorium. Their ashes are contained in an elaborate copper urn not far from the remains of Bram Stoker. The writng has faded but you can just make out a brief mention of the titanic.
I must certainly pay a visit to the graves of the other UK victims.
Regards
Ben
Many thanks for the information. That's correct, Austin Partner is buried in the churchyard, Long Ditton, Surrey. I made my visit a few days before discovering the message board in November last year. It is by far the most elaborate in the cemetary. An enormous white, pre-Raphaelite-esque statue stands above the headstone which reads:
"Sacred to the memory of Austin Partner of Tolworth Surbiton who lost his life in the foundering of the Steamship Titanic in mid-atlantic on the 15th day of April 1912 whose body was recovered and interred here May 23rd, Aged 40 years"
The remains of his wife, Nellie, and his youngest son, Colin Austin Partner are buried with him.
As Geoff said, Tyrell and Julia Cavendish are buried at Golders Green crematorium. Their ashes are contained in an elaborate copper urn not far from the remains of Bram Stoker. The writng has faded but you can just make out a brief mention of the titanic.
I must certainly pay a visit to the graves of the other UK victims.
Regards
Ben
Randy Bryan Bigham
Member
Ben,
I don't remember if I've mentioned it before, but in case not you may be interested in visiting the Duff Gordons' grave at Brookwood near London. They are interred in the historic civilian section of Brookwood Cemetery (quite a walk from the station, one side of which opens onto the grounds). I stress "historic civilian" as Brookwood is best known as a military cemetery for many soldiers lost in WWII.
They are in plot #225465 St. Margaret's Avenue, which isn't far from the church where the chaplain may be able to direct you. (NOT the church in the new part of the cemetery; you must cross a street to get to the old section)
Sadly there is not much to the Duff Gordon grave. It reads simply "Cosmo Edmund Duff Gordon, of Maryculter, 5th Baronet, July 22, 1862 - April 20, 1931." Beneath his dates there reads: "Also Lucy Christiana Duff Gordon." No dates for her unfortunately are inscribed.
If you can find it, you should also be able to find, not far away, the graves of Captain Smith's widow and daughter. They are along the same little road on the opposite side about 10 yards away.
Randy
I don't remember if I've mentioned it before, but in case not you may be interested in visiting the Duff Gordons' grave at Brookwood near London. They are interred in the historic civilian section of Brookwood Cemetery (quite a walk from the station, one side of which opens onto the grounds). I stress "historic civilian" as Brookwood is best known as a military cemetery for many soldiers lost in WWII.
They are in plot #225465 St. Margaret's Avenue, which isn't far from the church where the chaplain may be able to direct you. (NOT the church in the new part of the cemetery; you must cross a street to get to the old section)
Sadly there is not much to the Duff Gordon grave. It reads simply "Cosmo Edmund Duff Gordon, of Maryculter, 5th Baronet, July 22, 1862 - April 20, 1931." Beneath his dates there reads: "Also Lucy Christiana Duff Gordon." No dates for her unfortunately are inscribed.
If you can find it, you should also be able to find, not far away, the graves of Captain Smith's widow and daughter. They are along the same little road on the opposite side about 10 yards away.
Randy
Michael Findlay
Member
Brian,
Welcome back!
Congrats on finding the ever elusive Harry Faunthorpe. Greenberg and Nasrallah have been located though credit is to be given to Bob Bracken for their discovery. It puzzled us back in the 1980s (boy how we tried in vain to locate them then!) and continued up until last year when Bob made the discovery of Nasrallah here in New York. It took quite a bit of tracking but he succeeded. Nasrallah has a marker but it is the family monument. He lacks an individual stone so there is no visual indication that he is there - just the burial information contained in the cemetery office. I've sent the photo to Phil Hind but it hasn't been posted on the ET yet. Greenberg is another story...
Regards,
Mike
Welcome back!
Congrats on finding the ever elusive Harry Faunthorpe. Greenberg and Nasrallah have been located though credit is to be given to Bob Bracken for their discovery. It puzzled us back in the 1980s (boy how we tried in vain to locate them then!) and continued up until last year when Bob made the discovery of Nasrallah here in New York. It took quite a bit of tracking but he succeeded. Nasrallah has a marker but it is the family monument. He lacks an individual stone so there is no visual indication that he is there - just the burial information contained in the cemetery office. I've sent the photo to Phil Hind but it hasn't been posted on the ET yet. Greenberg is another story...
Regards,
Mike
Hey Randy,
I would be fascinated to visit the Duff-Gordon/Smith graves. Thanks for the directions! I'll be sure to make it a priority on my next trip into London.
I haven't yet got round to researching Ellen Barber, but if she returned to Penshurst (where I live) after leaving the Cavendish employment, I have a vague idea as to where she may have ended up.
Also, I'm attempting to locate the grave of Edith Chibnall's first husband in Tunbridge Wells, 15 mins away.
Thanks and regards
Ben
I would be fascinated to visit the Duff-Gordon/Smith graves. Thanks for the directions! I'll be sure to make it a priority on my next trip into London.
I haven't yet got round to researching Ellen Barber, but if she returned to Penshurst (where I live) after leaving the Cavendish employment, I have a vague idea as to where she may have ended up.
Also, I'm attempting to locate the grave of Edith Chibnall's first husband in Tunbridge Wells, 15 mins away.
Thanks and regards
Ben
Shelley Dziedzic
Member
Brian- tell me who it was we stopped to memorialize in that little town on the way to Halifax back in '91? Remember how we recreated the memorial wreaths from the description in the 1912 newspaper. You know I am not much of a passenger expert!
Shelley Dziedzic
Member
Mike F.- Remember when we found Bertha Noone in Massachusetts? I thought Miss Helen Otsby was buried in Swan Point outside Providence-remember stumbling over Lovecraft in the snow while looking for her? Does anybody know what 5 pennies and a nickel mean on top a tombstone? along with Marshall and Lou Drew, that's 3 Titanic people buried in Rhode Island.
Brian Meister
Member
Dear Shelley,
The lady to which you refer is Alice
Elizabeth Fortune Allen, one of the three
daughters of Mark and Mary Fortune. She
is buried in Chester, Nova Scotia, and you
are remembering a wonderful ceremony which
the parishoners of her church played a part
at the conclusion of their Sunday service.
Can it be 10 years since we walked the
rows of headstones in Halifax? I remember
laughing at the antics of Lou Pope during
one of our interviews. Truly, a trip and
experiences I will never forget.
Cheers,
Brian
The lady to which you refer is Alice
Elizabeth Fortune Allen, one of the three
daughters of Mark and Mary Fortune. She
is buried in Chester, Nova Scotia, and you
are remembering a wonderful ceremony which
the parishoners of her church played a part
at the conclusion of their Sunday service.
Can it be 10 years since we walked the
rows of headstones in Halifax? I remember
laughing at the antics of Lou Pope during
one of our interviews. Truly, a trip and
experiences I will never forget.
Cheers,
Brian
Michael Findlay
Member
Hi Shell,
How could I ever forget our trek to find Bertha Mulvihill Noon's grave in Pawtucket, RI, on that cold snowy day back in 1990? I remember that we also wanted to carve our names into the tree that other fans of Lovecraft did. That was the day we visited the Wayland Manor and spoke to Helen Ostby's old boyfriend (despite the drool!), visited Fall River and snatched pieces of the Lizzie Borden House, and visited Mrs. Robb at the Adams House for a wonderful dinner. When we told Marjorie we visited the Lizzie Borden home, she gasped, "What on earth would make you want to visit such a horrid place?" You smoothed that one over real well. Yes, we visited the Ostby graves in Swan Point - we took note of the impressive Celtic cross that adorns Engelhart Ostby's burial place.
A few other survivors are buried in Rhode Island, in addition to Marshall, Aunt Lu, Bertha Noon and the Ostbys. Margaret Hays Easton is buried in Portsmouth, and Amy Stanley Tanner is in Providence.
I must say that Brian Meister and a few others can attest to the cemetery adventures that we have undertaken over the past two decades. Brian and I had many uproarious moments (particularly in the New York area cemeteries.) Brian, how many times did we search only to find that a memorial was never erected for those tough Irish survivors? I don't know how we ever got out of the Bayside Cemetery in South Ozone Park, NY, alive (pardon the pun) in our quest for George Rosenshine's grave. The office was closed, and we searched for over three hours that cold day. Alas, he was finally found.
Who would have ever thought we would be doing such things?
Mike
How could I ever forget our trek to find Bertha Mulvihill Noon's grave in Pawtucket, RI, on that cold snowy day back in 1990? I remember that we also wanted to carve our names into the tree that other fans of Lovecraft did. That was the day we visited the Wayland Manor and spoke to Helen Ostby's old boyfriend (despite the drool!), visited Fall River and snatched pieces of the Lizzie Borden House, and visited Mrs. Robb at the Adams House for a wonderful dinner. When we told Marjorie we visited the Lizzie Borden home, she gasped, "What on earth would make you want to visit such a horrid place?" You smoothed that one over real well. Yes, we visited the Ostby graves in Swan Point - we took note of the impressive Celtic cross that adorns Engelhart Ostby's burial place.
A few other survivors are buried in Rhode Island, in addition to Marshall, Aunt Lu, Bertha Noon and the Ostbys. Margaret Hays Easton is buried in Portsmouth, and Amy Stanley Tanner is in Providence.
I must say that Brian Meister and a few others can attest to the cemetery adventures that we have undertaken over the past two decades. Brian and I had many uproarious moments (particularly in the New York area cemeteries.) Brian, how many times did we search only to find that a memorial was never erected for those tough Irish survivors? I don't know how we ever got out of the Bayside Cemetery in South Ozone Park, NY, alive (pardon the pun) in our quest for George Rosenshine's grave. The office was closed, and we searched for over three hours that cold day. Alas, he was finally found.
Who would have ever thought we would be doing such things?
Mike
Hi Mike F,
In regards to the victims buried in Canada, who is the third victim buried in Ontario and where are they buried? I know who the first two are and they are buried here in Toronto. They are of course Arthur Peuchen and Mary Fortune. I have visited Peuchen's grave, but not Mary Fortune's yet.
I know that Charles Hays is buried in Montreal, but who are the other two buried in Quebec and who is buried in Manitoba?
I would appreciate the information as I would like to visit their graves.
Best regards,
Jason
In regards to the victims buried in Canada, who is the third victim buried in Ontario and where are they buried? I know who the first two are and they are buried here in Toronto. They are of course Arthur Peuchen and Mary Fortune. I have visited Peuchen's grave, but not Mary Fortune's yet.
I know that Charles Hays is buried in Montreal, but who are the other two buried in Quebec and who is buried in Manitoba?
I would appreciate the information as I would like to visit their graves.
Best regards,
Jason
