Delia Mahoney
Member
First class cabin on all decks
- Thread starter Delia Mahoney
- Start date
Brian R Peterson
Guest
Delia,
The most common cabins were usually the forward single berth cabins; however there were 2 and 3 berth common cabins as well.
E Deck cabins may have been the cheapest, Molly Brown booked her E Deck cabin for £27 for example but it is my understanding that all of the common First Class cabins booked for around £30 which would be equal to around $150 USD in 1912 and $1,730 today.
Compare that with the price of the Parlor Suites at £870 each which was $4,400 USD in 1912 and would be about $50,000 today!
As for Boat Deck cabin prices, Mr. Stephen Blackwell of cabin T, the only known Titanic passenger to have occupied a Boat Deck cabin, paid £35 10s for his ticket and I would imagine the other Boat Deck cabins would book for around the same price.
Best Regards,
Brian
The most common cabins were usually the forward single berth cabins; however there were 2 and 3 berth common cabins as well.
E Deck cabins may have been the cheapest, Molly Brown booked her E Deck cabin for £27 for example but it is my understanding that all of the common First Class cabins booked for around £30 which would be equal to around $150 USD in 1912 and $1,730 today.
Compare that with the price of the Parlor Suites at £870 each which was $4,400 USD in 1912 and would be about $50,000 today!
As for Boat Deck cabin prices, Mr. Stephen Blackwell of cabin T, the only known Titanic passenger to have occupied a Boat Deck cabin, paid £35 10s for his ticket and I would imagine the other Boat Deck cabins would book for around the same price.
Best Regards,
Brian
Lester Mitcham
Member
Briefly, the Minimum 1st Class fare was £26. That could be reduced to £23, if no meals were taken in the regular Dining Room.
Inside Single-berth rooms ranged in price from £42 [A-deck] to £30 [E-47 aft on E-deck]. Most could have a sofa or upper Pullman berth added for a second passenger at £28 to Minimum per berth. Here I am referring to the advertised rates. - Few passengers paid those rates.
E-deck: Most of the 3-berth outside rooms were £52 for 1; £31 each for 2 and £27 each for 3.
D-deck: Outside 3-berth rooms £65; £37 each for 2 and £30 each for 3.
C-deck: Inside room cost either £52 or £60 for 1 with 2 each costing £33 or £36 and 3 each £27 or £28. 3-berth Outside rooms £75, £42 each for 2 and £32 each for 3; while the Parlour Bedrooms cost £90 for 1; £100 for 2. - Rooms with bathrooms and/or Wardrobe rooms cost more. - The bathrooms for the forward rooms and the 12 en-suites at the after end of 1st Class cost £35. Wardrobe rooms cost £10, with the bathrooms for those rooms costing £45.
The Parlour Suites were £355 for 1 or 2 passengers. £10 for each additional passenger.
B-deck: Generally £5 to £10 more than C-deck.
The Parlour Suites were not as is commonly believed £870; they were £660 for 1 or 2 passengers and a Servant. - £870 was the Summer Season rate.
The Suites of Rooms [comprising 2 bedrooms, private bath and lavatory and a Servant's room cost £304 for 1 or 2 passengers and a servant.
A-deck: Outside-single berth rooms were £60. The same on the Boat-deck except for "Y" which was £52. Outside single-berth rooms on B and C-decks were also £60. - £36 per berth for a 2nd passenger using a Sofa berth.
"Z" as with A-34 and A-35 was £85, £45 each for 2. A-3 and A-4 were £97 for 1, £53 each for 2 and £39 each for 3.
Single berths were not sold in the Parlour bedrooms and rooms with a private bathroom; otherwise depending on the size and location of the room [and if sharing with 1 or 2 other passengers] a berth could cost from £23 to £47.
Servants were £15.10/-.
I hope that gives a more detailed overview of the Room Rates.
Inside Single-berth rooms ranged in price from £42 [A-deck] to £30 [E-47 aft on E-deck]. Most could have a sofa or upper Pullman berth added for a second passenger at £28 to Minimum per berth. Here I am referring to the advertised rates. - Few passengers paid those rates.
E-deck: Most of the 3-berth outside rooms were £52 for 1; £31 each for 2 and £27 each for 3.
D-deck: Outside 3-berth rooms £65; £37 each for 2 and £30 each for 3.
C-deck: Inside room cost either £52 or £60 for 1 with 2 each costing £33 or £36 and 3 each £27 or £28. 3-berth Outside rooms £75, £42 each for 2 and £32 each for 3; while the Parlour Bedrooms cost £90 for 1; £100 for 2. - Rooms with bathrooms and/or Wardrobe rooms cost more. - The bathrooms for the forward rooms and the 12 en-suites at the after end of 1st Class cost £35. Wardrobe rooms cost £10, with the bathrooms for those rooms costing £45.
The Parlour Suites were £355 for 1 or 2 passengers. £10 for each additional passenger.
B-deck: Generally £5 to £10 more than C-deck.
The Parlour Suites were not as is commonly believed £870; they were £660 for 1 or 2 passengers and a Servant. - £870 was the Summer Season rate.
The Suites of Rooms [comprising 2 bedrooms, private bath and lavatory and a Servant's room cost £304 for 1 or 2 passengers and a servant.
A-deck: Outside-single berth rooms were £60. The same on the Boat-deck except for "Y" which was £52. Outside single-berth rooms on B and C-decks were also £60. - £36 per berth for a 2nd passenger using a Sofa berth.
"Z" as with A-34 and A-35 was £85, £45 each for 2. A-3 and A-4 were £97 for 1, £53 each for 2 and £39 each for 3.
Single berths were not sold in the Parlour bedrooms and rooms with a private bathroom; otherwise depending on the size and location of the room [and if sharing with 1 or 2 other passengers] a berth could cost from £23 to £47.
Servants were £15.10/-.
I hope that gives a more detailed overview of the Room Rates.
Lester Mitcham
Member
To what I posted before I should add that with many of the fares, rail travel from London or Paris is included. So the £27.14.5 that Margaret Brown paid was the Minimum fare from Paris.
Delia Mahoney
Member
Thank you for useful info for me!
*Merry Christmas and Happy New Year*,
Delia
*Merry Christmas and Happy New Year*,
Delia
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Lester,
There was also some sort of a “commission” paid, which I assume may have something to do with baggage handling or paying for. So the full prices that you see on the ticket list, is actually a total of 3 sums (where applicable).
Daniel.
There was also some sort of a “commission” paid, which I assume may have something to do with baggage handling or paying for. So the full prices that you see on the ticket list, is actually a total of 3 sums (where applicable).
Daniel.
Jeremy Lee
Member
If there was a "commission" paid, were there any tipping/ gratuities paid also?
Lester Mitcham
Member
Hi Daniel,
Yes, but my understanding is that the passenger paid the Ocean rate [or a discounted figure thereof] plus rail fare, with the White Star Contract Ticket List showing the total amount paid less forwarding [= the rail fare?] and less any commissions, etc, to arrive at a Nett Passage Money. So the commission, which I understand to be a fee payable to White Star's agents came off what the passenger paid before White Star received their money, but it was not additional to what the passenger paid.
So in the case of Margaret Brown she paid the Minimum Ocean rate fare of £26, plus the rail fare from Paris of £1.14.5 [various Fare Rate booklets show £1.15/- or £1.14.3]. Margaret's £27.14.5 [the Ocean Fare] included Commission of £1.19/- and Forwarding of £1.14.3 [note the 2d difference]; with the Nett Passage Money being £24.1.2.
For some reason where Forwarding is shown it is always £1.14.3 [or multiples thereof] from Paris and 11/- from London even if passengers had paid about the Minimum and therefore an advertized Rail Fare of only £1 [from Paris] or 10/- [from London].
Hope that makes sense?
Yes, but my understanding is that the passenger paid the Ocean rate [or a discounted figure thereof] plus rail fare, with the White Star Contract Ticket List showing the total amount paid less forwarding [= the rail fare?] and less any commissions, etc, to arrive at a Nett Passage Money. So the commission, which I understand to be a fee payable to White Star's agents came off what the passenger paid before White Star received their money, but it was not additional to what the passenger paid.
So in the case of Margaret Brown she paid the Minimum Ocean rate fare of £26, plus the rail fare from Paris of £1.14.5 [various Fare Rate booklets show £1.15/- or £1.14.3]. Margaret's £27.14.5 [the Ocean Fare] included Commission of £1.19/- and Forwarding of £1.14.3 [note the 2d difference]; with the Nett Passage Money being £24.1.2.
For some reason where Forwarding is shown it is always £1.14.3 [or multiples thereof] from Paris and 11/- from London even if passengers had paid about the Minimum and therefore an advertized Rail Fare of only £1 [from Paris] or 10/- [from London].
Hope that makes sense?
Lester Mitcham
Member
Oops! - 3rd paragraph should read:
For some reason where Forwarding is shown it is always £1.14.3 [or multiples thereof] from Paris and 11/- from London even if passengers had paid above the Minimum and therefore an advertized Rail Fare of only £1 [from Paris] or 10/- [from London].
For some reason where Forwarding is shown it is always £1.14.3 [or multiples thereof] from Paris and 11/- from London even if passengers had paid above the Minimum and therefore an advertized Rail Fare of only £1 [from Paris] or 10/- [from London].
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Lester,
I'll do this in two posts since I'll be posting two images. Originally when some researchers got the ticket lists from NARA only the left hand side was photocopied, and it was believed by some that that's all there was to it. The pages are actually much larger than that, and there is just as much of the page on the left hand side. Below is a full view of the 5th page of the 1st class ticket list:
Regards,
Daniel.
I'll do this in two posts since I'll be posting two images. Originally when some researchers got the ticket lists from NARA only the left hand side was photocopied, and it was believed by some that that's all there was to it. The pages are actually much larger than that, and there is just as much of the page on the left hand side. Below is a full view of the 5th page of the 1st class ticket list:
Regards,
Daniel.
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Lester,
Below will be a detail of the 1st line which also shows the column titles. Yes the quality is poor, but that's because I had to make the images 20k at the most. Some of the right hand column titles were cossed out and a handwritten one was substituted. The last four columns read "Commissions", "Forwarding", "Board" and "Nett Passage Money". You can see that the original price nearer to the the name and ticket number, is the total of all three. Nett Passage Money obviously refers to the cabin booking, forwarding appears to be the rail fare, and Commissions is something else, which I'm only guessing to be baggage payments, either excess baggage or cost of transferring the baggage by rail to ship etc.
Regards,
Daniel.
Below will be a detail of the 1st line which also shows the column titles. Yes the quality is poor, but that's because I had to make the images 20k at the most. Some of the right hand column titles were cossed out and a handwritten one was substituted. The last four columns read "Commissions", "Forwarding", "Board" and "Nett Passage Money". You can see that the original price nearer to the the name and ticket number, is the total of all three. Nett Passage Money obviously refers to the cabin booking, forwarding appears to be the rail fare, and Commissions is something else, which I'm only guessing to be baggage payments, either excess baggage or cost of transferring the baggage by rail to ship etc.
Regards,
Daniel.
Lester Mitcham
Member
Greetings Daniel,
Thank you for that. What you have reproduced is essentially what I gave you for Margaret Brown, with the Columns [re]-named as I stated above.
The Ocean Fare is not always the 'Ocean Rate' as set out in Fare Rate booklets, but where applicable includes Rail Fares; which as you agree are the figures shown under 'Forwarding'.
We agree that: .."the original price nearer to the name and ticket number, is the total of: - "Commissions", "Forwarding" and "Nett Passage Money".
However, I do not agree that: "Nett Passage Money obviously refers to the cabin booking". - It is the 'cabin booking' less any 'Commission' and 'Forwarding'.
Also, I do not agree that the Commissions will be anything to do with baggage payments. - In the line you show as with what I gave for Margaret Brown the 'original price' is the Minimum Fare from Paris - which is Ocean Rate and the Rail Fare.
If the passenger was paying for 'baggage' then that would have to be added to the Ocean Rate and the Rail Fare. But that is not the case. The 'Commission' comes off of the 'original price' and will therefore be an amount paid by White Star; not by the passenger.
As another example look at Miss Crosby. Minimum Fare from London £26.11/-. That is what she paid. Why would a 'baggage' figure of £1.6/- come off of that? Surely if Miss Crosby was paying £1.6/- for 'baggage' then her Fare would have been £27.17/-; and White Star would have Nett Passage Money of £26. But it only received £24.14/-. So White Star and not Miss Crosby paid the 'Commission'.
I hope that makes my thinking clearer.
I await your reply.
Regards,
Lester
Thank you for that. What you have reproduced is essentially what I gave you for Margaret Brown, with the Columns [re]-named as I stated above.
The Ocean Fare is not always the 'Ocean Rate' as set out in Fare Rate booklets, but where applicable includes Rail Fares; which as you agree are the figures shown under 'Forwarding'.
We agree that: .."the original price nearer to the name and ticket number, is the total of: - "Commissions", "Forwarding" and "Nett Passage Money".
However, I do not agree that: "Nett Passage Money obviously refers to the cabin booking". - It is the 'cabin booking' less any 'Commission' and 'Forwarding'.
Also, I do not agree that the Commissions will be anything to do with baggage payments. - In the line you show as with what I gave for Margaret Brown the 'original price' is the Minimum Fare from Paris - which is Ocean Rate and the Rail Fare.
If the passenger was paying for 'baggage' then that would have to be added to the Ocean Rate and the Rail Fare. But that is not the case. The 'Commission' comes off of the 'original price' and will therefore be an amount paid by White Star; not by the passenger.
As another example look at Miss Crosby. Minimum Fare from London £26.11/-. That is what she paid. Why would a 'baggage' figure of £1.6/- come off of that? Surely if Miss Crosby was paying £1.6/- for 'baggage' then her Fare would have been £27.17/-; and White Star would have Nett Passage Money of £26. But it only received £24.14/-. So White Star and not Miss Crosby paid the 'Commission'.
I hope that makes my thinking clearer.
I await your reply.
Regards,
Lester
Lester Mitcham
Member
Please amend the second sentence of paragraph 2 to read:
However, I do not agree that: "Nett Passage Money obviously refers to the cabin booking". - It is the 'cabin booking' less any 'Commission'.
I added 'Forwarding' in error.
However, I do not agree that: "Nett Passage Money obviously refers to the cabin booking". - It is the 'cabin booking' less any 'Commission'.
I added 'Forwarding' in error.
Daniel Klistorner
Member
Lester,
Do you mean that "Commissions" is like a deposit on the booking? What I meant by nett passage money is that that money was for the cabin - the accommodation on board, and did not include any additional costs of getting to the ship etc. In the price booklet, the cabin prices did not include any rail fares.
Daniel.
Do you mean that "Commissions" is like a deposit on the booking? What I meant by nett passage money is that that money was for the cabin - the accommodation on board, and did not include any additional costs of getting to the ship etc. In the price booklet, the cabin prices did not include any rail fares.
Daniel.
Lester Mitcham
Member
Hi Daniel,
No. I believe that the "Commission" is what WS paid to its agents. So WS received the Nett Passage Money after paying any commission to its agents.
Problems with the CTL are that its opening fare column 'Ocean Fare' contains more than the Ocean Fare, it contains Rail Fares, which instead of being in the column headed 'Inland Fare' is under 'Forwarding'. Other columns are renamed.
Surely if a passenger paid a 'Minimum Fare' be it with or without forwarding and then some other amount is deducted to arrive at the 'Nett Passage Money' then the passenger did not pay that 'other amount'. Yet it came off of what WS received 'Nett'. So it has to be a 'Commission' paid by WS. Who would WS pay a 'Commission' to other than their agents?
I hope that makes my thinking clearer?
Regards,
Lester
No. I believe that the "Commission" is what WS paid to its agents. So WS received the Nett Passage Money after paying any commission to its agents.
Problems with the CTL are that its opening fare column 'Ocean Fare' contains more than the Ocean Fare, it contains Rail Fares, which instead of being in the column headed 'Inland Fare' is under 'Forwarding'. Other columns are renamed.
Surely if a passenger paid a 'Minimum Fare' be it with or without forwarding and then some other amount is deducted to arrive at the 'Nett Passage Money' then the passenger did not pay that 'other amount'. Yet it came off of what WS received 'Nett'. So it has to be a 'Commission' paid by WS. Who would WS pay a 'Commission' to other than their agents?
I hope that makes my thinking clearer?
Regards,
Lester
