First Class Passengers forgotten


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Joan David

Guest
Who they are these passengers?
For that one does not speak about them?

-Miss D.D Casseboro
-Mrs Mamam J.Renago
-Miss Appie Ranielt
-Miss Ninette Panhart
-Mr F.A Kennyman
-Miss Sarah Dodge
-K.B Barratt
-Mr and Mrs Bisley
-Mr Haren H. Daniell
-Miss Ellis
-Miss N.Frolicher
-Miss J.A Hold
-Miss Nina Hope
-Mrs Mahan
-Mrs Melicard
-Miss Letta Menderson
-Mr Washington Newell
-Miss Ellen Pomroy
-Miss A.Peercault
-Mrs William Skeller
-Miss Taylor
-Miss Ella Thor
 

Brian Ahern

Member
Dec 19, 2002
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Joan - I don't know where you got these names from, but as Bob said on another thread, their origin must lie in the garbled wireless transmissions that butchered passengers' names in the earliest newspaper accounts.

My guesses:
Ninette Panhart = Ninette Aubart
Miss DD Casseboro = Mrs. Cassebeer
Sarah Dodge, Washington Newell = Washington, Ruth and Washington, Jr. Dodge and Arthur, Madeleine and Marjorie Newell.
Mr. and Mrs. Bisley = Mr. Laurence Beasley
Miss N. Frolicher = Marguerite Frolicher
Miss Nina Hope = Nina Harper
Mrs. Mahan = Mrs. Lilian and Miss Daisy Minahan.
Miss Ellen Pomroy = Edward Pomeroy Colley
Miss A. Peercault = Anne Pericault
Miss Taylor = Elmer and Juliet Taylor
Miss Melicard = Amelia Icard
 

Paul Rogers

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Jun 1, 2000
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West Sussex, UK
"Have you ever worked out who Leonch Eldegrek was?"

I'd guess that the mystery person might be Ken "Lodger" Leech - so called because he always ended up spending the night at friends' homes, finishing off their copies of The Times crossword.

smile.gif

/It's been a very long day...
 
J

Joan David

Guest
dear Brian Ahern
I do not agree with your opinion, because:
-Mrs Mamam J. Renago was in a titanic real list
-Miss Ninette Panhart also
-Mr and Mrs bisley also, because Mr Beesley of second class travelled alone
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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Joan, forget the list which you have seen. That was published before the survivors had arrived in New York and could be accurately accounted for. Those early lists were based on misinformation, poor quality wireless reception, and a lot of guesswork. Grammatical and spelling errors like those listed above were common, and the victim lists included people who survived, and vice versa. Real people who were alive and well and had never been near the Titanic were surprised to find themselves listed among the dead. The real lists are the revised and corrected versions which were used, for instance, in the official Inquiries back in 1912 and are the basis of the lists available on this website.
 

Brian Ahern

Member
Dec 19, 2002
645
7
183
Hi Joan - I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by "real list".

My opinion remains that "Mr. Laurence" could be garbled into "Mr. and Mrs." I also think it's a pretty good bet that there weren't multiple Ninettes whose surnames ended in "-art" on the ship.

I hadn't taken a stab at Mrs. Renago's identity, but I do tend to agree with the person on the other thread who theorized that this was Maria J. Penasco.

So many names were garbled by the wireless. Mr. and Mrs. Kimball were reported as "Mr. and Mrs. Kimberly" and Mrs. Cornell was "Mrs. O'Connell", to name just two examples.
 

Dave Gittins

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Mar 16, 2000
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Joan, I'll give you some idea of how the names were sent to New York.

On Carpathia, the names were written down by the purser and his staff. The survivors spoke many languages and even the English speakers often had heavy regional accents. The lists would have been partly wrong from the start.

On the night of 15 April, Harold Cottam, of Carpathia, sent the names of the first and second class survivors to Olympic, because his radio couldn't contact the shore stations. Cottam had been awake since the morning of 14 April. Goodness knows what his work was like. Olympic relayed the lists to shore stations at Sable Island and Cape Race. Her operator had some trouble getting through.

On 16 April no names were sent, because Cottam fell asleep at his key. On the night of 17 April, Harold Bride, formerly of Titanic, sent the names of the third class survivors to USS Chester, which relayed them to shore stations.

The shore stations sent on the messages to New York and other places by telegraph or telephone.

Remember that the messages could be read by anybody who had a good enough radio. Various amateurs listened in and confused matters. Newspapers may have got information from these people.

You can see that many people were involved and there were many chances for errors.

The newspapers often jumped to conclusions. I have a funny Australian newspaper article about the Americans on Titanic. It seems to have been made by looking at a list of famous Americans and looking for similar names on the passenger list. A number of notable Americans who had never gone near Titanic were listed as lost.

The names that are given on Encyclopedia Titanic are as accurate as possible. They have been corrected over many years, often with the help of their relatives. The early newspaper accounts are amusing, but they are of little use. One of my favourites is the paper that suggested R Abbott was meant to be Leontine Aubart. Two more different women would be hard to find.
 

Dave Gittins

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Mar 16, 2000
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To enlarge on the problems of the early passenger lists, I found in what I jokingly call my “files” an article from the Sydney Morning Herald of 19 April 1912.

The Sydney Morning Herald was a major paper and was receiving information by telegraph from the USA almost as fast as the American papers.

The article contains some accurate information about Jacques Futrelle, Francis Millet and others. As in other papers, Washington Roebling is confused with his uncle of the same name, who completed the Brooklyn Bridge, begun by yet another Washington Roebling.

Other information is even more misleading. Passengers who had names resembling those of notable Americans are assumed to be the notables, even when their initials are clearly different. So we have----

William Carter. Assumed to be John Ridgely Carter, an American diplomat.

Frank Manley Warren. Assumed to be Senator F E Warren, former governor of Wyoming.

William Hoyt or Frederick Hoyt. Assumed to be Professor L W Hoyt, of Denver University.

Herbert Parsons, a notable New York lawyer. There was no passenger of that name on board.

Other papers mention members of the Vanderbilt family and George Eastman, of Kodak fame, none of whom were on board.

This kind of mess was repeated in papers all round the world, making them of very limited value as sources. Their errors are still seen on websites, such as the Irish site mentioned elsewhere. One list that amused me is one that gives Miss Isham as Miss Islam. The same list has a numeric where there should be a letter. Too much watching Numb3rs?
 
J

Joan David

Guest
-Miss Rose O'Connell
-Miss Nina Hope
-Miss Anna Simmons
-Miss Jessie Hold
-Miss Ninette Panhart
-Miss Didy Casseboro
-Miss Ellen Pomroy
-Mrs Mamam J.Renago
-Miss Ella Thor

[Moderator's Note: This message, originally posted as a separate thread, has been moved to this pre-existing thread addressing the same subject. MAB]
 

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