Floor Debris


Status
Not open for further replies.

Matt Simons

Member
Mar 12, 2005
169
1
183
Will Cameron or any other expedition ever look at the floor debris for clues. There are probably millions of clues in that debris. In the first class dinning saloon there is a thing that looks like a piano. And possibly table and chair remanents, along with glass light bowls and table lamps (if they exited) also plates, glasses, silverware, etc. And floor tiles.

In Bruce Ismays wardrobe room their is what appears to be luggage. The parlor suit promenades also have a lot of debris in them.

So does the E-Deck landing for the Forward Grand Staircase. There could be remanents of the dome, baulstrades, chandelier, staircase, wall panneling, ceilling paneling there. And in the Staterooms, surely the ceilling decorative beams and panneling must have gone somewhere. All of it can't be deteriorated.

Also does RMS have a rule on not removing anything from the ship that is still in its original place. I've never seen anyone take the still beaded chandeliers from the Forward Grand Staircase. Or is it just common curtesy (think I spelled that wrong) not to remove anything.

Does anyone have any input.
 
Jul 9, 2000
58,638
800
563
Easley South Carolina
>>Also does RMS have a rule on not removing anything from the ship that is still in its original place.<<

No. The U.S. district court which has jurisdiction over this affair has that rule. As Salvor-In-Possesion, RMSTI is permitted to recover artifacts from the debris field but is legally prohibited from molesting the wreck itself. While James Cameron may well look for a lot of things, he won't be making an attempt at recovery. Even if it were legal for him to attempt it...and it's not...his attitude and approach has been "Look But Don't Touch."
 
Jun 12, 2004
2,131
13
233
It would be interesting to know if pairs of boots (body remnants) have been found inside. We'd have a clue as to what happened to some of those lost, as to where they were inside the ship. Hmmm.

Sorry, just thinking aloud.
 
Mar 3, 1998
2,745
259
358
I can assure you, as a forensic analyst on Cameron's team for the 2001 expedition, that floor debris was given as much, if not more, attention than anything else inside the wreck. If you read Ken Marschall's wreck report on my website (URL in my signature line below) or watched "Ghosts of the Abyss," you will find numerous observations of items poking up from the accumulated silt. The one that immediately comes to mind was Mr. Harper's bowler hat, found sitting atop a debris pile.

You have to realise that the silt and debris that has accumulated over the past 90 years or so can be as deep as 2 feet in some areas. Chances are that small items lying on the deck are completly buried.

Today, there is a signed but as-yet unratified treaty in force to protect the wreck. NOAA has been charged with the task (and authority) of enforcing that treaty. During the NOAA/IFE/URI expedition of 2004, Dr. Ballard requested permission to send Hercules down the No.2 hatch to look for evidence of the missing crow's nest. NOAA turned down his request, because that consitituted a penetration of the wreck that was not reviewed and approved beforehand. In order to explore the interior of the wreck, one must submit a detailed dive plan for NOAA's approval. NOAA bases their decision on whether or not the wreck will be treated with respect during the course of any requested mission. NOAA also protects the rights of the salvor-in-possession; in this case, RMST. No one is allowed to recover artefacts from the wreck site except for RMST. Even then, RMST must follow the guidelines of the treaty, which essentially prohibit anyone from removing objects from the wreck itself unless there is a stated historical need for such a retrieval. In that case, retrieval would be discussed, evaluated and approved before mission start.

To address specifics above:

>In the first class dinning saloon there is a thing that looks like a piano.

No, there's a mound in one corner where the piano is supposed to be that might be the remains of the piano, but it could easily be something else. Ken Marschall thought there was a shape on the opposite side of the room that looked more like a piano, but there was not enough there for him to make a positive identification. Working with Ken, I would have to say that his powers of observation are exceptionally tuned...if he can't identify something, then it truly is nondescript.

>In Bruce Ismays wardrobe room their is what appears to be luggage.

No, the initial speculation about luggage was based on the box-like shape of the debris and hopeful thinking. That footage was studied closely and it appears that we were looking at the remains of an emptied wardrobe.

>So does the E-Deck landing for the Forward Grand Staircase.

The importance of the area beneath the GSC D-deck foundation was not lost on either Cameron or the analysts. Cameron sent the ROV as far as he could before its way forward became restricted. We have looked at the footage of that area for clues and could not find any. I personally want to know where all the heavy balustrades went, but there simply are no signs found to date of any inside the wreck.

>It would be interesting to know if pairs of boots (body remnants) have been found inside.

No human remains, or clues to human remains, have been found inside the wreck, to my knowledge. I have studied every frame of the hour's worth of video that Cameron shot inside the Marconi Room area, much of my attention riveted to the floor, where most of the surviving Marconi equipment can be found. There's no hint that people ever occupied that space, no personal effects, nothing. The body of the stoker who Bride and Phillips supposedly beat senseless and left lying on the deck in the Marconi Room? Not a trace.

Parks
 

Matt Simons

Member
Mar 12, 2005
169
1
183
Thanks to everyone who answered.

I have read the Interior part of Ken's report. I did not know they could not remove items from inside the wreck. Someone did however remove a crane piece from the stern section, who did this, did they have permission. Thanks!
 

Erik Wood

Member
Aug 24, 2000
3,519
15
313
Great info Parks, thanks for sharing I will be looking forward to reading that report soon.
 
Mar 3, 1998
2,745
259
358
Erik,

You can read the report right now...I was referring to Ken's 2001 wreck report on my site. My other observations come from "Ghosts of the Abyss."

Parks
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Similar threads