Forward staterooms on Adeck

[Rolf Vonk]

Hello there,

Last wednesday I found a Titanic book in the library. In the book there was a picture from probably the father Brown or Odell collection. It shows young master Odell on the forward part of A deck (actually the part under the bridge). I guess there are some guys who know this picture. Most windows of the forward A-deck cabins on this picture are opened (cabins A 1,2,3,4). The cave and cabin list both don't show that these cabins were occupied. I think it is very unusual to open the windows of unoccupied cabins during a voyage. Could anybody tell me if it is possible that these cabins were occupied? Even when it is possible that these cabins were occupied during the Southampton-Cherbourg-Queenstown voyage?

I hope someone can help me.

Greetings Rollie

 

[Charles Provost]

That is an interesting observation.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I checked the ET deck plans on this, and apparently, some of these cabins were occupied. Here is a list of A Deck Cabins forward that actually had the windows described and who was supposed to be in them;

Starboard side

A7: James Clinch Smith
A11:Edith Russel
A21:John Bertram Brady
A29:Edith Course Evans

Port side

A16:Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon
A20:Lady Duff-Gordon
A24:Washington Roebling
A32:Hugo R. Rood
A34:The Dodge Family

Hope this helps.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Charles Provost]

No, Michael. Rollie meant the windows on the forward end of A-deck. The very same ones that are opened on the Jack Oddell picture.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Ah, got it. Thanks. Perhaps these rooms were being aired out then? Or perhaps they were occupied at the time, but the records have been lost. The Cave List was far from complete.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Rolf Vonk]

Hello,

I don't know the price of the forward A-deck cabins, but I guess they where rather high. Maybe the two middle cabins were occupied by a single person like Mr. Rheims or Mr. Sloper??
I don't think the rooms were aired out. I'm sure that they had the chance to do that before the maiden voyage started. On the other side it seems possible that the staterooms were aired, but only the occupied rooms. A picture of Father Brown shows the Titanic in Southampton dock on Wednesday 10th of april. It shows the gangplanks from the wall to the port side first class entrance on B deck. When you look at the picture, you see that many windows of the first class staterooms on B and C deck are opened. But these are the windows of, so far as I can see, only occupied cabins.

Greetings Rollie

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Anything in 1st Class would be a bit pricey, but I suspect these cabins would be on the low end. (Although I could be wrong) Check the deck plans. These are some of the smallest cabins in 1st Class. I can't imagine anyone paying top quid for them.

Perhaps somebody out there has a price list so we can clear this up.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Charles Provost]

Well, it's not difficult to imagine that staterooms A3 and A4 were rather expansive. They were larger than a bunch of forward staterooms on B or C-decks. On the other hand, A1 and A2 are some of the smallest...I don't think a single person could go much higher than £25 for such cabins.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Agreed. Not much room for debate here when the evidence is right befor your eyes. I wonder if maybe these cabins were occupied by people who got off in Queenstown.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Lester Mitcham]

For Rolf, Michael & Charles,

The advertized rate for staterooms A-1 & A-2 was 60 pounds; the same as that for all other Outside Single Berth-rooms (except A-7; A-8 & Y). A-3 & A-4 were two of the most expensive rooms on the ship 39 pounds each for 3 passengers; 53 pounds each for 2; and 97 pounds for 1.

But who would want a room under the Bridge?

Lester

 

[Rolf Vonk]

Hi there,

I understand the two single berth-rooms weren't so expensive as I thought. I agree with Michael about the thought that some in Queenstown disembarked passengers may have occupied the forward cabins on A-deck. Tough I still think it could be possible that some "uncabinlisted" passengers may have occupied one of the rooms.
BTW, Lester, why shouldn't it be nice to have a room under the bridge?!

Greetings Rollie

 

[Rolf Vonk]

Lester, I forgot you to ask where you found the rates for the cabins on A-deck. You told that most of them were advertised against a rate of 60 pounds. I looked in the passenger list here at ET, but most of the passengers in the A-deck cabins paid a lower rate than 60 pounds. How is that possible? Did you mean that the advertised rates included things like dinners etc.?

Hope you can help me further

Greetings Rollie

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Rollie,

Against being under the bridge would be having people walking about overhead. Okay if you were a heavy sleeper, but otherwise it might not be too pleasant. Although the WheelHouse was further aft over the gentlemen's lavatory and bathrooms.

Yes most passengers seem to have paid far less for their rooms than the advertized rate. A notable exception was Mrs Robert who paid 211 pounds 6s and 9pence for one of the smallest single berth rooms (rate 60 pounds); a two-berth room with a bunk-style bed rather than two single beds (rate 39 pounds each for two passengers) plus 1 servant at 15 pounds 10s. Rail fare from Paris to Cherbourg was 1 pound each; plus 1 pound 15s for the servant. = 128 pounds 15s.

The Advertized rates come from a White Star Line fare rate booklet which you can obtain from THS.

You mention meals. If the passage was taken without meals in the regular Dining Saloon an allowance of 3 pounds per adult was made off the ocean rate (that is the rate excluding rail fares); with an allowance of 5 pounds per adult on rates of 35 pounds and upwards.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Lester

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Lester, thanks for that bit of information. I may have to order a copy of that brochure.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Rollie, you and Michael also refer to the idea of passengers disembarking at Queenstown being in the forward rooms on A-deck. I do not think that White Star would have given them rooms.

Father Browne is an exception, but we do not know what was paid for his ticket. Could it be the 29 pounds (No name; ticket No 242154) that appears on one of the cross-channel lists? Less Commission (1 pound 10s) and forwarding (1 pound 16s) 25 pounds 14s has been crossed out and 9 pounds 7s written in.

Although the Ocean Rate was the same from Southampton, Cherbourg and Queenstown, White Star charged the Lucian Smiths and Mr Baumann cross-channel fares, so would they let passengers who only paid Southampton to Queenstown (a fare of just 4 pounds) occupy rooms. I doubt it; unless monies were paid to the purser after they boarded.

Lester