Forward staterooms on Adeck

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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hello there,

Last wednesday I found a Titanic book in the library. In the book there was a picture from probably the father Brown or Odell collection. It shows young master Odell on the forward part of A deck (actually the part under the bridge). I guess there are some guys who know this picture. Most windows of the forward A-deck cabins on this picture are opened (cabins A 1,2,3,4). The cave and cabin list both don't show that these cabins were occupied. I think it is very unusual to open the windows of unoccupied cabins during a voyage. Could anybody tell me if it is possible that these cabins were occupied? Even when it is possible that these cabins were occupied during the Southampton-Cherbourg-Queenstown voyage?

I hope someone can help me.

Greetings Rollie
 
Dec 2, 2000
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I checked the ET deck plans on this, and apparently, some of these cabins were occupied. Here is a list of A Deck Cabins forward that actually had the windows described and who was supposed to be in them;

Starboard side

A7: James Clinch Smith
A11:Edith Russel
A21:John Bertram Brady
A29:Edith Course Evans

Port side

A16:Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon
A20:Lady Duff-Gordon
A24:Washington Roebling
A32:Hugo R. Rood
A34:The Dodge Family

Hope this helps.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Apr 26, 2005
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No, Michael. Rollie meant the windows on the forward end of A-deck. The very same ones that are opened on the Jack Oddell picture.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Ah, got it. Thanks. Perhaps these rooms were being aired out then? Or perhaps they were occupied at the time, but the records have been lost. The Cave List was far from complete.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hello,

I don't know the price of the forward A-deck cabins, but I guess they where rather high. Maybe the two middle cabins were occupied by a single person like Mr. Rheims or Mr. Sloper??
I don't think the rooms were aired out. I'm sure that they had the chance to do that before the maiden voyage started. On the other side it seems possible that the staterooms were aired, but only the occupied rooms. A picture of Father Brown shows the Titanic in Southampton dock on Wednesday 10th of april. It shows the gangplanks from the wall to the port side first class entrance on B deck. When you look at the picture, you see that many windows of the first class staterooms on B and C deck are opened. But these are the windows of, so far as I can see, only occupied cabins.

Greetings Rollie
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,590
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Easley South Carolina
Anything in 1st Class would be a bit pricey, but I suspect these cabins would be on the low end. (Although I could be wrong) Check the deck plans. These are some of the smallest cabins in 1st Class. I can't imagine anyone paying top quid for them.

Perhaps somebody out there has a price list so we can clear this up.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Apr 26, 2005
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Well, it's not difficult to imagine that staterooms A3 and A4 were rather expansive. They were larger than a bunch of forward staterooms on B or C-decks. On the other hand, A1 and A2 are some of the smallest...I don't think a single person could go much higher than £25 for such cabins.
 
Dec 6, 2000
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For Rolf, Michael & Charles,

The advertized rate for staterooms A-1 & A-2 was 60 pounds; the same as that for all other Outside Single Berth-rooms (except A-7; A-8 & Y). A-3 & A-4 were two of the most expensive rooms on the ship 39 pounds each for 3 passengers; 53 pounds each for 2; and 97 pounds for 1.

But who would want a room under the Bridge?

Lester
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi there,

I understand the two single berth-rooms weren't so expensive as I thought. I agree with Michael about the thought that some in Queenstown disembarked passengers may have occupied the forward cabins on A-deck. Tough I still think it could be possible that some "uncabinlisted" passengers may have occupied one of the rooms.
BTW, Lester, why shouldn't it be nice to have a room under the bridge?!

Greetings Rollie
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Lester, I forgot you to ask where you found the rates for the cabins on A-deck. You told that most of them were advertised against a rate of 60 pounds. I looked in the passenger list here at ET, but most of the passengers in the A-deck cabins paid a lower rate than 60 pounds. How is that possible? Did you mean that the advertised rates included things like dinners etc.?

Hope you can help me further

Greetings Rollie
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Hi Rollie,

Against being under the bridge would be having people walking about overhead. Okay if you were a heavy sleeper, but otherwise it might not be too pleasant. Although the WheelHouse was further aft over the gentlemen's lavatory and bathrooms.

Yes most passengers seem to have paid far less for their rooms than the advertized rate. A notable exception was Mrs Robert who paid 211 pounds 6s and 9pence for one of the smallest single berth rooms (rate 60 pounds); a two-berth room with a bunk-style bed rather than two single beds (rate 39 pounds each for two passengers) plus 1 servant at 15 pounds 10s. Rail fare from Paris to Cherbourg was 1 pound each; plus 1 pound 15s for the servant. = 128 pounds 15s.

The Advertized rates come from a White Star Line fare rate booklet which you can obtain from THS.

You mention meals. If the passage was taken without meals in the regular Dining Saloon an allowance of 3 pounds per adult was made off the ocean rate (that is the rate excluding rail fares); with an allowance of 5 pounds per adult on rates of 35 pounds and upwards.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Lester
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Rollie, you and Michael also refer to the idea of passengers disembarking at Queenstown being in the forward rooms on A-deck. I do not think that White Star would have given them rooms.

Father Browne is an exception, but we do not know what was paid for his ticket. Could it be the 29 pounds (No name; ticket No 242154) that appears on one of the cross-channel lists? Less Commission (1 pound 10s) and forwarding (1 pound 16s) 25 pounds 14s has been crossed out and 9 pounds 7s written in.

Although the Ocean Rate was the same from Southampton, Cherbourg and Queenstown, White Star charged the Lucian Smiths and Mr Baumann cross-channel fares, so would they let passengers who only paid Southampton to Queenstown (a fare of just 4 pounds) occupy rooms. I doubt it; unless monies were paid to the purser after they boarded.

Lester
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Lester,

You do not think that the White Star gave the cross channel passengers a cabin, but the passengers who disembarked at Queenstown had to be one night on board the ship. I don't think they would stay the whole night awake or spent there night in the public rooms, because they were all closed late in the night. Father Brown isn't the only exception. The Odell family occupied a suite on B-deck during their short voyage from Southampton to Queenstown.

Greetings Rollie
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Hi Rollie,

I am aware of the suggestion marked "speculation" that the Odell/May party had suites on B-deck; but I cannot see White Star giving them 2 of the best rooms on the ship for a night; when they only paid 20 pounds. I repeat we do not know the cost of Father Browne's ticket. He was not part of ticket 84 costing 24 pounds and on which a refund of 4 pounds was given because Mr H. Odell did not sail. So a room must have been booked for him. What better than A-37 which like A-36 did not officially exist.

The only other passenger booked to travel from Southampton to Queenstown was Mr E. Nichols.

While I note you comment about not spending the whole night awake and that the public rooms were closed what would have happened to any passengers travelling from Southampton to Queenstown if the ship had filled up at Cherbourg?

But perhaps with Titanic being so empty the purser allowed the Odell/May party and Mr Nichols to have rooms for the night.

Lester
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Lester!
The Titanic was long not full and it is sure that there were rooms enough for the few cross channel passengers. But you're right that the rate of 20 pounds is low for a first class suite.
I wonder if that's because of the distance to travel. Southampton-Queenstown is long not so far as Southampton-New York. Or were the cabinrates always the same?
BTW, I have another question. Why did Father Brown had a first class stateroom, while he was travelling second class???

Hope you can help me.
Greetings Rollie
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Hi Rollie,

The Rate from Southampton to Queenstown was 4 pounds per passenger. There is no mention of a room being provided. Southampton to Cherbourg was 1 pound 10s. Cherbourg to Queenstown was 2 pounds 10s.

Father Browne travelling 2nd Class? Where does that come from?

Regards,

Lester
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Dear Lester,

I guess you're right. The Odell party (5 persons) had to pay 5x4 or 20 pounds, like you said before, for the cross channel voyage. It seems so strange that they had no room on board...

BTW, you're right about Father Browne. He was not a second class passenger. I'm very dissapointed!!(..) A Dutch book told he was a second class passenger (never believe Dutch books!!), but all the pictures I found of the Father Browne collection, were from first class area's of the Titanic. I already thought it was so strange for a second class passenger to have a cabin in first class...

Greetings Rollie