Four in a nest?


Jim Currie

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I have been pilloried for asking this before, but I ask it yet again.

In the famous photograph alleged to be of Titanic leaving Southampton, if you zoom into the crows nest, you will see a person wearing an officer's hat at the front of the nest, two sailors watching the tugs on the starboard side and a single sailor watching the quay side. Who were they? Why were they up there?
 
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Stewart Hall

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I have been pilloried for asking this before, but I ask it yet again.

In the famous photograph alleged to be of Titanic leaving Southampton, if you zoom into the crows nest, you will see a person wearing an officer's hat at the front of the nest, two sailors watching the tugs on the starboard side and a single sailor watching the quay side. Who were they? Why were they up there?
Hi Jim, Would you mind posting the photo? Thanks!
 

Jim Currie

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Are you really asking because you don't know, or are you waiting to tell us the answer?
I do not know for certain, Sam. it is an anomaly which does not fit the occassion.
Perhaps I have a problem with my old eyesight? However, you and Mark are the expert historians who have written reams on all aspects of the subject and have access to information which I do not. I assume that you both have opinions of your own? If so, let's have them.
Incidentally, since I last posted on this photograph, many new members have joined ET. It might just be refreshing to hear their input.

This is an open forum so let's discuss the "four" of-um ;)
 
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Jim Currie

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Hi Jim, Would you mind posting the photo? Thanks!
Hello Stewart, It is really a series of three and they are blow ups.
3 men in the nest.jpg

Alongside the quay (man sitting on railway sleeper)
s-l400.jpg

Out at the entrance to the WSL Dock and a little later 4 in the nest
nomen in the nest.jpg

Passing the waving well wishers and heading for the New York? An empty nest
 
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Cam Houseman

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I do not know for certain, Sam. it is an anomaly which does not fit the occassion.
Perhaps I have a problem with my old eyesight? However, you and Mark are the expert historians who have written reams on all aspects of the subject and have access to information which I do not. I assume that you both have opinions of your own? If so, let's have them.
Incidentally, since I last posted on this photograph, many new members have joined ET. It might just be refreshing to hear their input.

This is an open forum so let's discuss the "four" of-um ;)
Hi Jim, Good Morning!

Which Photograph do you mean?
1603111395964.png
 
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Jim Currie

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We have to be careful here. Four might just be three men and an open door in the mast. However there is a lot which is not quite right about these photographs. I prefer to use the untouched ones. However, take Cam's photographs.
In (1) she is not going astern. If you look carefully, you can see the bow tug tow rope through the center lead and the tug's propeller wash. If you look even closer, you can see a little bow wave a few inches high on Titanic.
(2) was taken before (1). Note that the Reporter in the bowler hat has no overcoat indicating it was near to or after mid day.
(3) is a really strange one. When did Titanic use her starboard anchor at Southampton. If you look closely, you can see it is being retrieved and that cable washing hose is in use...see the water coming out of the hawse pipe.
The first 2 are more than likely of her leaving. However it is the following one which shows Titanic shortly after she turned down river - allegedly after (2) and (1) which does not fit. No men in the nest




titanic-leaving-southampton-the-titanic-project.jpg
 
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Cam Houseman

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We have to be careful here. Four might just be three men and an open door in the mast. However there is a lot which is not quite right about these photographs. I prefer to use the untouched ones. However, take Cam's photographs.
In (1) she is not going astern. If you look carefully, you can see the bow tug tow rope through the center lead and the tug's propeller wash. If you look even closer, you can see a little bow wave a few inches high on Titanic.
(2) was taken before (1). Note that the Reporter in the bowler hat has no overcoat indicating it was near to or after mid day.
(3) is a really strange one. When did Titanic use her starboard anchor at Southampton. If you look closely, you can see it is being retrieved and that cable washing hose is in use...see the water coming out of the hawse pipe.
The first 2 are more than likely of her leaving. However it is the following one which shows Titanic shortly after she turned down river - allegedly after (2) and (1) which does not fit. No men in the nest




View attachment 72661
Hi Jim!

Hmm....so is it a mystery what Photograph you're referring to?

here's a theory: the extra two men could be the two handles on the side of the entrance into the Crow's Nest
1603202920931.png


1603203002552.png

1603202979399.png


Also, an Open door in the mast? I didn't think there was one!
I've never seen diagrams of the Crow's Nest with a door. For reference, here's Paul Lee's Diagram
1603202783823.png
 
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Jim Currie

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Hi Jim!

Hmm....so is it a mystery what Photograph you're referring to?

here's a theory: the extra two men could be the two handles on the side of the entrance into the Crow's Nest
View attachment 72665

View attachment 72667
View attachment 72666

Also, an Open door in the mast? I didn't think there was one!
I've never seen diagrams of the Crow's Nest with a door. For reference, here's Paul Lee's Diagram
View attachment 72663
All the photographs labelled as Titanic leaving Southampton have a ? after them but that is verging on s diversion to this thread. The question should be "When would the Crow's nest be manned and who would man it?"
Paul's sketch shows the doorway and handles if fitted would be invisible to anyone below the bulwark rail of the nest so you can rule out that idea. He also shows a midship- fore end staunchion for a weather cloth. As far as I know, there was no such staunchion.
However, if you have a closer look at the picture of her passing the crowd on the quay, you can actually imagine that there is one man in the nest...the black outline to the left of the bell might well be someone standing on something waving with his left hand to someone on the other side.:confused:
 
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Cam Houseman

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All the photographs labelled as Titanic leaving Southampton have a ? after them but that is verging on s diversion to this thread. The question should be "When would the Crow's nest be manned and who would man it?"
Paul's sketch shows the doorway and handles if fitted would be invisible to anyone below the bulwark rail of the nest so you can rule out that idea. He also shows a midship- fore end staunchion for a weather cloth. As far as I know, there was no such staunchion.
However, if you have a closer look at the picture of her passing the crowd on the quay, you can actually imagine that there is one man in the nest...the black outline to the left of the bell might well be someone standing on something waving with his left hand to someone on the other side.:confused:
Jim, I've never seen a sly mention of a door after climbing up the ladder to the Crow's Nest. Could you share a sketch or diagram?
 
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White Star Regulations of 1907 had also clearly mention of station of the different officers. Station for 2nd officer when leaving port "in crow's nest".
 
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Well in the pic that young master Cam posted there doesn't seem to be very many people on the dock waving goodbye like a ship leaving would have. Looks like just another work day on the docks.
 
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