"Four Telegraphs Rang" - Who Rang That Order & Why was it Given?


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Aaron_2016

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Thomas Dillon said the telegraph rang in the engine room just "two seconds" before the collision. Frederick Scott was asked:

"Four telegraphs rang."
Q - Did you hear the two?
A - All four went.
Q - Did you hear the two ordinary ones ring first?
A - No, they all four rang together.
Q - What did they ring?
A - “Stop.”

Does anyone know if this required two people to ring 4 telegraphs together, and if that was carried out by Murdoch and Moody? Fleet spoke to Major Peuchen and he was told that nobody answered the phone. Is this because Moody was ringing the telegraph? Hichens was heard in the lifeboat calling out to another lifeboat and asking the survivors if they knew which officer was on duty during the collision. That was certainly a strange thing to ask. He said the order to turn the helm was given 'after' the telegraph ring, but Dillon said the collision had occurred just 2 seconds after the telegraph rang. There clearly wasn't time for the order "hard a-starboard" to be ordered or even carried out. According to Hichens the other quartermaster was standing next to him when the helm order was given, but QM Olliver said he did not arrive on the bridge until after the collision. Does anyone agree that there is something fishy about this 'hard a-starboard' order? Also what happened when the order to stop using 4 telegraphs was given? Did the engines crash stop, or stop soon after the order and stop the ship with a jolt or vibration?


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Mar 18, 2008
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One person could have done it too as the telegraphs could be added so that they would go both when one was used. The emergency ones were use to underline/make sure about the order.
QM Olliver arrived on time to see the top of the berg passing by.
 

codad1946

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There would have been only two telegraphs on the bridge for the engineroom - one for each main reciprocating engine. The other telegraphs were those from the engineroom to the boiler rooms, all of which would have been rung - probably only two, again one for each engine, but I'm not sure. These telegraphs informed the stokehold crews of the ship's movements so that they could respond to the requirements of the engines. STOP was rung on the engineroom to boiler room telegraphs, accompanied by a red light. Barrett mentioned this in his testimony and it's in the Cameron movie as well.
 
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The telegraphs on the bridge had no connection to the boiler rooms. The boiler rooms got the signals from the main engine room. 2 were connected from the bridge to the docking bridge the others to the main engine room.
 

Georges G.

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We have to understand how the EOTs (Engine Order Telegraphs) were working. If we look at the Main EOTs, one located on the Portside and the other one on the Starboard side, we notice the presence of 2 handles. Those handles were independents from each other since Titanic was a Twin Maneuvering Engines. The Port Handle would order the Port Engine whereas the Stb’d Handle ordered the Stb’d one. The bridge was also equipped with an Emergency EOT in case of malfunction of the Main EOTs or to validate an emergency maneuver.

telegr11.jpg


Murdoch activated simultaneously both Handles of the Stb’d Main EOT followed within seconds by both Handles of the Emergency EOT to «Stop» (Boiler Room Red Light). Thus, 2 Handles of the Stb’d Main EOT + 2 Handles of the Emergency EOT = 4 EOTs Repeaters in the Engine Control Room Stand, ringing all together within seconds.

If you look at the Movie, Murdoch activates only one handle just like the EOT handles were interdependent of each other’s which was not the case…
 
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The boiler rooms got their orders from the main engine room.
Scott: "Oh, that is in the stokehold. We know inside when the engines are stopped; that is in the stokehold; that is when they ring up separate from the telegraph. That is a little thing about so big to show when the engine is stopped. That is rung by one of the engineers in the engine room."

The only thing we know is that moments before the crash came someone in the engine room gave a Stop order to the stokeholds, assuming Barrett's testimony is correct. If so, that tells me that there was no order given from the bridge at that time to go full astern as Mr. Boxhall had claimed.

Regarding the engine order telegraphs,
(5535) "...They ring the two on the main engine room, and then they ring two others just afterwards, the emergency ones."
They did not go simultaneously. According to Scott, who said he was standing by the WTD looking into the main engine room from the turbine room, those telegraphs went to stop after the crash came. He also said the doors dropped after that.

This all begs the question, when did Murdoch send down engine orders after the phone call was received from the nest? Did he first try to clear the berg with the 'hard-astarboard' helm order intending to port around, only to see that the vessel was not going to clear, and then ran the telegraphs to order Stop? That also allows time for the ship to actually start turning to port and turn a measureable amount (1 to 2 points?) before striking the berg. An interesting snippet from Hichens:
"The sixth officer repeated the order, 'The helm is hard astarboard, sir.' But, during the time, she was crushing the ice, or we could hear the grinding noise along the ship's bottom. I heard the telegraph ring, sir."
Notice that he mentions here about hearing the telegraphs ring after describing hearing the grinding sounds of collision. The sounds of the telegraphs being answered from the engine room?


 
A

Aaron_2016

Guest
Wondered about that. Hichens seems to imply that the telegraph rang twice.

"The Chief officer rushed from the wing to the bridge, or I imagine so, sir. Certainly I am enclosed in the wheelhouse, and I can not see, only my compass. He rushed to the engines. I heard the telegraph bell ring; also give the order "Hard astarboard," with the sixth officer standing by me to see the duty carried out and the quartermaster standing by my left side. Repeated the order, "Hard astarboard. The helm is hard over, sir.........Mr. Murdoch, the first officer, sir; the officer in charge. The sixth officer repeated the order, "The helm is hard astarboard, sir." But, during the time, she was crushing the ice, or we could hear the grinding noise along the ship's bottom. I heard the telegraph ring, sir. The skipper came rushing out of his room."


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Mar 18, 2008
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Regarding the engine order telegraphs,
(5535) "...They ring the two on the main engine room, and then they ring two others just afterwards, the emergency ones."
They did not go simultaneously.
It is more this part which raised some "speculation" amongst some of us that they were connected (the main telegraph for port & starboard).

5536. Did you hear the two? - All four went.
5537. Did you hear the two ordinary ones ring first? - No, they all four rang together.
5538. What did they ring? - "Stop."

As going by the "official" version Murdoch was alone at the telegraphs while Moody was standing by Hichens. If they went together who was at the port side of the bridge at the telegraphs? Maybe one of the two who claimed they arrived "just in time" but too late to know what happened, Boxhall and Olliver. (Going with Hichens testimony at the American Inquiry the other QM - Olliver - was standing next to him.)


This all begs the question, when did Murdoch send down engine orders after the phone call was received from the nest? Did he first try to clear the berg with the 'hard-astarboard' helm order intending to port around, only to see that the vessel was not going to clear, and then ran the telegraphs to order Stop? That also allows time for the ship to actually start turning to port and turn a measureable amount (1 to 2 points?) before striking the berg. An interesting snippet from Hichens:
"The sixth officer repeated the order, 'The helm is hard astarboard, sir.' But, during the time, she was crushing the ice, or we could hear the grinding noise along the ship's bottom. I heard the telegraph ring, sir."
Notice that he mentions here about hearing the telegraphs ring after describing hearing the grinding sounds of collision. The sounds of the telegraphs being answered from the engine room?
Going with Hichens newspaper interview: "As Officer Murdoch's hand was on the lever to stop the engines the crash came. He stopped the engines, then immediately by another lever closed the watertight doors."
Hichens avoid to mention any helm orders.
Going with what Hichens mentioned aboard Carpathia the engine orders (stop) & closing of the WTDs were given after the "Hard-a-port" (which was given during the crash) order.
 

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